"Age of Sigmar - Quest for Ghal Maraz Review" Topic

Picked this book up over the weekend and dived in. Penned a few thoughts about it;

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Yup this is what GW has come to.

Selling books for $80 USD plus and soon they will have those $100 USD plus books out.

Just how many pages in the book are nothing but photos of their miniatures?

I _knew_ you were going to jump in on this thread :)

Seriously, your hate for GW is at a level where you might want to think about talking to someone about it – it seems to be becoming an obsession. It is also not completely cool to jump into every GW-related thread and start bashing. Some of us kinda like the games.

However, to answer your question, most of them. Miniatures gaming is a visual medium, and a lot of people kinda like seeing pictures of pretty painted miniatures. It inspires them to work at their own.

"Mithmee's obvious obsession aside, how is the reverse also not completely cool, requiring professional help? "

A good question.

I guess the difference would be that we are all in our own little houses (threads on a forum) and it is about how you act when you are there.

For example, Mithmee could create a thread entitled Why I Hate GW. It would not be cool for me to jump into every such thread with comments attacking that subject. Once, okay. But constantly? It would be a bit off.

"so all those figures painted to a studio standard, of a lesser quality than what was almost a generation ago IMO"

Really? I am the last one in the world to talk about anything visual (as my staff keep telling me), but thinking back to, say, 2nd edition 40k days, everything seemed a lot brighter and flashier, but also a lot flatter and basic (Goblin Green bases with a layer of flock on them, for instance). You really think the quality of the paint work has gone down?

@Mithmee and MongooseMatt,

I have an interesting position on the latest GW stuff, both their books and miniatures.

I still love GW's miniatures and I love the quality of their books. I will still happily play 3rd, 7th and 8th Editions with my friends and will also be playing AOS with those same friends. I love the new AOS lore and the new storylines, and of course as always GW's miniatures detail is supremely good.

But I also reached a point of saturation. I've kind of reached that point of critical mass where I don't need or want to start up a whole new round to build a new collection of new Warhammer miniatures and books.

I related in a separate post that while I think that GW's prices were expensive throughout the 90s and 2000s, they were not insanely expensive, I could accept the pricing. But I also related that I think with this round of Warhammer, the prices for AOS stuff is simply going too far, even by 2015 prices.

I do feel that a 240 page campaign supplement is not worth $80. USD It just isn't. Not when you are getting 75% filler and only 25% information. That's not to say that the quality of photography isn't beautiful, it certainly is and is always the case with GW.

But I feel that it's a case of GW just pushing it too much. Everything they are publishing for AOS, in particular the 264-page rule book, has massive filler in the form of horrifically repetitive AOS artwork as well as the usual "painting guides" as well as cut and paste diagrams of the AOS factions. And the text is all bigger so there is a lot less information on each page than they could have potentially fit into it. A campaign book should be about the campaigns and contain exhaustive information on the campaigns and the forces participating in them.

It's just a case of too much AOS filler and not enough information. And they are not only spreading it out into multiple supplements that could easily be combined and consolidated, but they are even repeating the same information already, which for an $80 USD book is inexcusable.

I could handle the older Warhammer army book supplements at $25 USD, $30 USD, even $40. USD I could handle the hard cover rules for $75 USD because the book was as big as a Bible. I remember back in 2003 GW published "The General's Compendium". It was like $30. USD To this day I consider it to be the best supplement GW ever published. Massive book covering campaign rules, maps, terrain tutorials, building campaign boards, etc. It even came with a full-size fold out map of the Border Princes region.

Those prices were manageable and you got a ton of information as well as the amazing photography and filler.

The 6th, 7th, and 8th Edition army books weren't like the AOS supplements are now. Yes, they did have a lot of photography and did have painting guides, but they also have massive amount of information and stats on the army. The rule books were the same way. Massive amount of information but also fantastic photography.

Seems that with AOS GW got top-heavy on the filler and pulled back on the information. Not to mention that if you are now spending $80 USD on SUPPLEMENTS, of which there will be many, many more to come, it's simply too big of an expense when you consider that you are also buying new releases of miniatures to play with.

So in the end, my take on AOS and the prices of these books is that I am enjoying seeing AOS develop and I'm enjoying the lore. But I won't be participating in it directly. I am content to play AOS with my existing Warhammer armies and use the free rules and free warscrolls. I can still enjoy the new story and campaigns as much as anyone else, without having the burden of having to spend another $2,000 USD+ to get yet another round of books and miniatures.

That is what I am liking so much about GW did with AOS. They literally provided free rules, free warscrolls for every unit for every army I already own, and my investment is $0. USD I was able to get the basic soft cover 96-page rule book from the starter set on Ebay for $15. USD

So I am now able to fully enjoy every aspect of AOS, and my personal investment in money was $15 USD total. If I so choose to purchase a couple of the new terrain pieces so that I have some visual representation for the AOS campaign scenarios, then my total investment in AOS will be maybe $100 USD or so.

How can you beat that? I mean I'm sure that GW doesn't want existing customers to do what I did, which is buy practically nothing new! But I also think that it was very respectful and very generous on their part to allow existing veteran players to play and enjoy the new game without having to start all over again with a new and huge dollar investment.

>>>But I also related that I think with this round of Warhammer, the prices for AOS stuff is simply going too far, even by 2015 prices.

When they released the Lord-Castellant, I gave pause when I saw the £23.00 GBP price tag on a character model (okay, it has a little dog too, but still). And, in the interests of honesty, I should say that I only pay trade on GW items. That _is_ a big factor for me in terms of purchasing decisions.

On the other hand, have a look at some of their recent releases. 20 Plague Monks for, what, £20.50 GBP, and there have been a few others of that ilk (Dryads, Bloodreavers). It looks like GW are playing around with at least some of their price points.

Also please note: I am not saying those prices are brilliant, but it is a reversal from the ever-upwards pricing of recent years.

>>>I do feel that a 240 page campaign supplement is not worth $80. USD USD It just isn't. Not when you are getting 75% filler and only 25% information.

Well, this depends on where you are coming from. If you are someone who gets off on the background, then that is 75% of stuff you are really after (I mentioned this in my review). If you are the crunch and chrome guy, it will be an issue.

>>> But I also reached a point of saturation. I've kind of reached that point of critical mass where I don't need or want to start up a whole new round to build a new collection of new Warhammer miniatures and books.

I can very much understand that. However, I have noticed on other forums people saying they are liking the idea of a clean, fresh start – and I can kinda see where they are coming from on that. I am sort of enjoying the newness of AoS, to the extent that I have changed my style of painting completely (it _is_ weird – AoS has meant I now paint better!).

>>> I remember back in 2003 GW published "The General's Compendium".

Sitting on my shelf right now :) And yes, that was a good book.

of which there will be many, many more to come, it's simply too big of an expense when you consider that you are also buying new releases of miniatures to play with.

So very true and both of these are going to become more and more expensive to buy.

This is only the first of many Scenario books that GW plans to release.

Oh and many of them just might have the same photos of miniatures in them.

Oh and I do not jump into every GW thread.

There's a lot I can complain about with regards to AoS, but the scenario book treadmill is the one that turns me off the most. It's still early, so we will need a few more months of releases to see a pattern, but if the trend is a big expensive book ever other month or quarter, it's not really doing much to sell me on the game (other than the aforementioned stuff I'm not discussing here). Yes, the rules are free. Yes, the warscrolls for much of the back catalog are free. But IMHO GW structured those so that you WANT to buy the big expensive books to get the most out of the game, especially as it comes to the scenarios. I can make my own scenarios it is true, but to keep the experience new, GW wants you to keep buying those books…

Damon.

Great review Matt! (And I'll take this moment to say I'm looking forward to the new Traveller big time!)

I like the evolving story line for AoS, and I'm looking forward to getting a new book once a month to find out what happens next, and for the warscrolls, scenarios, and Time of War special terrain rules. I agree the first big book was a little weak in the value department, but Quest for Ghal Maraz has hit the sweet spot for me regarding the fluff/art/photos/crunch ratios.

And I'm not a rich man by any means, but $74 USD once a month (and who pays retail anymore anyway?) is not going to break the bank for me. I'll get more use out of an AoS $74 USD book than another couple bags of Old Glory "Hey Steves" tossed into the lead pile.

Of COURSE GW engineered the AoS release so that customers will want to buy the monthly big book release. Why wouldn't they?

>>>$74 USD once a month

I would be surprised if they do these campaign books every month – it would speak to _massive_ resources in terms of both writing and art. There is more work in Ghal Maraz than the average Codex…

Still, have been wrong before!

>>>And I'll take this moment to say I'm looking forward to the new Traveller big time!

Watch this space :)

People seem to forget that GW is a commercial company whose job is to sell things for a profit

True but their attempts at profits really is just gouging their customers.

Could I afford to spend $1,200 USD or more each year on their stuff?

Yes I could but there are many that can't so they end up falling behind those who are paying to win.

I do not pay GW prices for anything and if I want something I will use other means to get it (Ebay, etc…)

I'm over GW bashing. I dont care what they charge. To those that can afford everything good for you as long as you dont brag. I'll get what I can and enjoy it.

If you would rather mold blobby lead soldiers in your basement thats okay, too.

BTW the comment on the painting I dont agree with, this stuff looks great.

MongooseMatt, thanks for the thorough and even keeled review :) although I don't use it,in any but the most extreme cases myself, or advocate it for others much….. The ignore/ stifle options can do wonders for increasing a positive experience on this site.
All should be wary of personal attacks as slipping down that slope earned myself a well deserved trip to the Dawghouse :) my first in over a decade of being on here I might add.
I too grow weary of some of the same repeated stuff inundating these boards but really…..they are just opinions and are not that hard to just ignore.
On another note I am very glad to see GW putting out something new and actually……. well…..fantastical, instead of the same old rehashed up tenth edition of the same old same old. Old is cool and is still out there for those who think it is still great.
As for some other comments on here….
Why do some feel the need to bash Old Glory? I don't think they are blobs of lead. I have a huge number of their Dark Ages stuff and they are quite nice. Are thy GW esk works of miniature art? No but nice none the less ;D

I just dont see the point in going crazy everytime GW makes a move. They have been criticized for everything they do. Dont you expect what they do by now? The horse has been resurrected by Nagash 500 times. Why bother anymore unless it interests you.

Nagash is now gone but he did bring GW lots of money for that last horrible miniature of him.

The old Nagash miniature was simpy one of the most stupid looking GW miniatures ever produced. Itmakes me LOL just to see a picture of it. At least the new (giant) one was an improvement on that! :)