"FOW - Cold War Intel?" Topic

I've seen the latest pics of the IFVs, APCs/troops from Battle Front, for the Cold War, and they look superb, but am wondering if there is any talk of other releases on their forum, or other websites, since we're only 1.5 – 2 months out from the kickoff of their new period.

I suspect we'll be receiving more news soon, about the rules, other products, etc.

They know about the Soviet T-64s, right?

Looking forward to doing some Cold War gaming in various scales, including 15mm.

I hope you are wrong, but suspect you are probably not.

On the plus side, they'll work for Warsaw Pact "allies", and other nations, I guess.

Looking forward to some East German troops, from any company, and those nice looking 15mm Poles previewed a few days ago.

According to Wiki, Poles with T55s should make an appearance as well.

Yes based on Team Yankee, so a little like basing a Historically accurate set of Napoleonic rules on Sharpe! Still the models so far look nice.

The NVA was still mainly T-55, not forgetting the Polish T-34/85.

Tally Ho!

so a little like basing a Historically accurate set of Napoleonic rules on Sharpe!

What so massively popularising an otherwise niche period, resulting in films and TV series?

Actually of course there is a huge difference – the author of Team Yankee was a serving US Armor officer, so knows a lot more about T64s and T72s than most self appointed experts who will be commentating in the 'I hate anything successful by Battlefront' line….

If it does well it will see plenty of supplements to cover pretty much all major European Armies/Equipment of the era then spill out to a broader time frame – no doubt there will be T-64 stats to use – me personally looking forward to it – planning to use 3mm Pico Armor

I am sure he did, basing the book on the flawed intelligence that T-72 was to replace the T-62 in Europe.

It will be great if the new rules popularise the period and bring more 15mm models to the party. However as one of the experts looking at T-64 and T-80 in Europe in the mid 80s one cannot understand how a historical set of rules is to be based on a work of fiction! Tis a little strange when one reads their WW2 background books, which have obviously been well researched.

Tally Ho!

Yea, seems like half the WP still kept their T-55s, since the T-62s were so expensive, and in some aspects, a retrograde in terms of performance.

Just saw this for air support:

TMP link

Not clear what scale they'll be, so if anyone has info on that, I'd appreciate an update.

Easier to base off a book when it comes to imagi wars (not sledging them btw). Would have thought the Red Effect series would be better.

No early, mid and late war tech tree to worry about either.
Monday – Early War
Tuesday to Thursday – Mid War
Friday and half of Saturday – Late War

"No early, mid and late war tech tree to worry about either".

I certainly hope there is, since I'm interested in the early to mid Cold War periods as well, not just the mid-1980s.

Of course, if need be, I can always get a lot of that kit from others, with the exception of the US Armored Cavs M-114s, armed with the .50 cal, and/or 20mm cannon. No one makes it yet, in 15mm, which is a huge oversight, and a crying shame.

Have I mentioned that today?

Ooh, I must think about an M114…

As a Cav trooper that patrolled the inner German border during the 80's and privy to Intel gathered by our USMLM to East Germany. I saw more pictures of T-72's then 64's. Especially the later models. The big one that caused more worry then the 80's was the 72B1. Just my experience back then.
@dsfrank already working on my cold war Pico collection.

Thanks CavScout – good to know, as aesthetically I far prefer modelling the T72.

Actually I think the fuss over T64/T72s is entering into angels on a head of a pin territory – when you consider the probable mistakes we make when we wargame much earlier periods of history! Same gun and gunnery computer/sighting, and similar armour…

In my view its much more of a straw being clutched at by the anti-Battlefront/FOW brigade who are jealous of their commercial success and likelihood of popularising this period, of which until now they have been the 'only' self appointed custodians…hopefully I'm wrong and the product will be given a fair go without any preconceptions or petty jealousies….

Those little bogies on the T-64 always struck me as rather odd, especially for Russian/Soviet armor. Perhaps a weight-saving experiment?

Don't overthink the M114, Geoff.

Just build it, and they will come. .50 cal and 20mm options, if you please.

A must, in my opinion, for any decent, US Armored Cav force, patrolling the inter-German Border back in the Cold War.

When paired with those little M551s, and M113s, they'll serve as the speedbumps against the tip of the Soviet/WP assaults.

Of course, we'll need some Davy Crocket launchers on tripods and jeeps, just in case things go south…….

I saw an article on the 64, 72, and 80 and how nightmarish the maintenance was on the 64's and supposedly were issued to only those units near where they were produced. It seemed when they broke down they needed a factory tech to fix it. I'll see if I can find it and link it.

Bruce 417, for that is now your name, it is not being anti Battlefront to say that in Europe the Soviets were equipped with T-64 and T-80 and not T72, it is merely stating fact. It would be a shame to produce a set of rules that had orbats and TO&E wrong, when there is plenty of, now unclassified, information out there.

The big problem is that the US believed the T-72 was the successor to T-62 in Europe and even produced posters of the big 7 to prove it! In 86 The G2 branch from 3(UK) Armd Div went down to Graf for a visit and were bemused when during a TI demo the emphasis was on the T-72 without a mention of T-64

It should also be important to know the TO&E of the various units and nationalities, otherwise how can one introduce the NVA or Czech units into a scenario where they may actually be on an anti Sov agenda! Life is all about the knowledge of TO&E and signature equipments.

As I said there is plenty of stuff out there, some is not quite accurate such as one that talks about 8th Guards Army with the T-64 in Magdeburg. When we used to go past Magdeburg in the 80s, it was the HQ 3 Shock Army with T-64 facing BAOR, 8 Guards Army being in the South with their T-80 ready to roll over to, the Fulda Gap!

Tally Ho!

…of which until now they have been the 'only' self appointed custodians

Yep. We haven't been doing it since 1996 at all.

Plus those producing for the period in 3, 6 or 20mm, in several cases since before BF existed.

Kismet – was just pondering Fulda Gap (SPI) and some cold war malarkey when I see FoW are doing some stuff. This may (may) tempt me away from my beloved 1/72 into 15s for a spot of 70s/80s Cold War gone hot action.

Thanks guys – I will go searching for more info

Bruce 417? Lol! – Fair one!

I'm not suggesting for a moment that T64s weren't the main MBT equipping the 3rd Shock Army, nor that wargames companies such as Skytrex, Peter Pig and QRF have been producing Cold War ranges in 15mm since Christ was a Corporal…how could I, when I have cupboards groaning with their products….and if I may say so I think its a bit of stretch to read that into my post…

I'm merely saying that Battlefront's entry into this Cold War Gone Hot period:

1. Deserves a fair go without being slated by the their detractors BEFORE they've even released the rules;

2. No matter how terrible anyone feels the rules may be, they will undoubtably raise much more interest in this period as a wargaming genre, and everyone will benefit, whether you use their rules or not, or already produce applicable ranges….

I may well join the chorus pointing out every little and last shortcoming and omission and orbat howler from Team Yankee when it comes out – but I will at least have the grace to not only read them first, I may even play them through a few times also before jumping on the keyboard to scoff that the 333rd Field Mess tin Repair Workshop was based in Hannover not Hohne…

That said, I am enjoying all this speculation and excitement, and I think it bodes well for everyone interested in this period…

G'day Bruce,

on the button, however historical inaccuracy will only play into the hands of detractors, but if Colin gets a copy I may even give it a go, in 1:300 of course!

Tally Ho!

2. No matter how terrible anyone feels the rules may be, they will undoubtably raise much more interest in this period as a wargaming genre, and everyone will benefit, whether you use their rules or not, or already produce applicable ranges….

couldn't agree more ! bring it on !

what BF does very very well is promotion !

methinks Wargaming benefits more than suffers .

We are already looking forward to it – sales of Soviet tanks are soaring :-)

Bruce 417, for that is now your name, it is not being anti Battlefront to say that in Europe the Soviets were equipped with T-64 and T-80 and not T72, it is merely stating fact. It would be a shame to produce a set of rules that had orbats and TO&E wrong, when there is plenty of, now unclassified, information out there.

Maybe true,but this game is Team Yankee. The 1980's novel by Harold Cole. If it is to be right by the book then it's T-72s baby!!! Feel free to substitute your stick-in-the mud T-64s if you want, but then you're not doing Team Yankee!!

Maybe they should release a "Chieftains" version for the euries out there?

link

Maybe true,but this game is Team Yankee. The 1980's novel by Harold Cole.

So no BAOR, Bundeswehr, CMBG, French, Belgians, Dutch, Danes, Poles or NVA then? Sounds like a revenue-limiting move to me.

T gunner so it is fantasy rather than historical? A book, I believe, based on the Fulda Gap scenario, so 8 Guards Army with their T-80. Feel free to substitute your T-72 but then you are doing fantasy,

Tally Ho!

There is already talk of follow on releases covering NORTHAG and so on. It doesn't take the brains of an archbishop to predict that they will release Team Yankee, and then develop further if its popular…Clearly it makes marketing sense to appeal to the US market first…

And labelling a 'what-if' alternative history; based on a novel, which is itself based on a counterfactual history; as 'fantasy' is a bit rich!

We have learnt in this thread alone that there is already enough kit out there that anyone can replicate accurate orbats to their hearts content.

I too hope that it is as historically accurate as they can make it, but in this genre which historical accuracy counts? What we believed then, or what we know now? If we go with what we know now about Soviet junk, who's gonna play the Soviet side?

What, IMHO, has been missing todate is a popular ruleset that will gain sufficient momentum to allow one to find opponents. I think and hope 'Team Yankee' will be that ruleset, if we can all give it a chance to get off the ground before we start sniping…

You wouldn't shoot at grouse before it took wing, would you?

Fantasy may be a bit strong but alludes to the magical appearance of equipment to the theatre of war! Fiction may be a more accurate description, even if it is meant to be what if, then it should accurately portray the ORBATs and TO&E that existed.

Of course another way to look at it is that all of my Chieftains in 1985 will be Mk11, with TOGs and DU ammunition,

Tally Ho!

Yes of cours 'Historical Fiction' exactly matches the source!

And yes, all my Chieftains will be STILLBREW – and a goodly mix of Chally 1s – that's the beauty of 1985!

Of course Bruce, that does depend on which Brigade you field!!

Tally Ho!

T gunner so it is fantasy rather than historical?

It's a war that never happened so yeah, it's total fantasy. You can play it historically and I'm sure that there are folks who will. I wouldn't be surprised if Battlefront has alternate Soviet TO&Es that cover other, more accurate, equipment issues, but you're not getting T64s if you're playing Team Yankee. It was T72s all the way there with a few T55s and T62 making cameo appearances.

As an aside, GW made a Team Yankee game back in the 80's/90's and it included the book based T72s. The order of battle notes say quite clearly that the T64 is the more correct vehicle, but they didn't do the T64 because this was a game based off the book. I think David Drake says the same in his graphic novel version of Team Yankee too.

Accurate or not, putting T64s down instead of T72s isn't playing Team Yankee. Nor is playing with M1A1s, but that's what my unit had in 1990! Team "Fighting Aces", yes. Team Yankee, not so much!

I do think there's plenty of room for a win-win though. Like I said above, they just need to have options in the company list with proper points values that allow you to play a "realistic" force with T64s or a "book proper" force with T72s (ditto with NATO- Team Yankee with M1IPs and M113 and later companies with A1 Abrams and M2 Brads). I'll probably go T72 because I can see myself doing Desert Storm and Iraq didn't have T64s.

Sounds like a revenue-limiting move to me.

It could be just Team Yankee only, who knows? It could be the initial focus is on the US/Team Yankee. I've noticed that's how Battlefront works. They start small then build up.

For example, their Vietnam range started with "We Were Soldiers Once" with the Battle of Ia Drang then it expanded out to include more NVA/Cong and US Army (infantry/Armor), then to ARVN and ANZAC.

Ditto with WWI. They started with the first tank-on-tank battle in 1918 with just limited UK and German forces and are now starting to expand out to the French and the US

link

So it would seem reasonable to assume that they will start with Team Yankee with US and Soviets (and perhaps the Poles since they were in Team Yankee) then maybe expand out to touch other Warpac and NATO forces in future waves.

Screw this tank rubbish, I want Soviet Airnorne anyway…

I too think they missed a trick by doing TY the mini game and not based off of actual 85 TOE. There is so many vehicles for this era that if TY does well they would have idiots for managers if they didn't quickly move to do GSFG vs BAOR and Bundeswher. I suspect other Warpac and Nato would take longer to see.

The real litmus test for me is if they do a decent job with the rules for modern weapon systems like ATGM and so forth. You can kitbash whatever you like list wise as long as the core engine works.

Imagine if they followed this up with Red Dawn the minis game…

@Navy Fower Wun Seven, no fair on the pic comparing the T64 vs T72, you cheated by showing a pimped T72. Fully pimped T64:

Khurasans 3d render

QRF model

A little like these do you mean:)

More info on my Cold War blog
link

Ready in time for the team Yankee release :)

ASU85! Get your war on Keith, need those now. Who makes Mi10's in 1/100 scale?

Being readied as we speak:)

Mi-10? That was a sort of flying crane affair – not really what you want. Mi-6 'Hook' was the main airborne heavy lifter. The only one I know of is an old plastic kit by the East German (?) company NuBee. Very nice it is too! We've got two of them (still needing assembly) and they're MASSIVE.

Mi-6 'Hook' was the main airborne heavy lifter. The only one I know of is an old plastic kit by the East German (?) company NuBee. Very nice it is too! We've got two of them (still needing assembly) and they're MASSIVE.

We have a resin one: link

When did you sneak that out?!

It's a Miltra one. Had it forever. It really is a big