Gunfreak | 17 Aug 2015 4:45 a.m. PST |
So this is how i based my first legion
As you see its quite abstract, with hastati and pricipes lines consisting of two "units" and triarii 1. The advantage is few bases to move Round (wach unit is only two bases. And the whole legion is 100 infantry and 12 cav. (Pluss skirmishes ) But i see others have based 8 and 8 as manipelers. This looks better, letting you create checkerboard pattern. But i feel 10 8 figure bases is to much, suddenly all my lines have doubled in strength. When a legion is 100 strong, fielding two legions is easy space wise, even 4 is not that hard. But with double i gets harder. So I thought I'd redo my basing but say each 8 figure manipeler us two? So 5 bases per line (3 for triarii ) it will let me create the checkerboard. and keep about the same number of figures. |
olicana | 17 Aug 2015 5:31 a.m. PST |
Each to their own, but for what it's worth: I've always found the quincunx formation to be a pain for wargaming. It's much easier to move lines without spaces so that things keep the right footprint size. With modern thinking going away from complex manoeuvre (as per several books, including Greece and Rome at War by Conolly, and Osprey's Roman Battle Tactics 390 – 110 BC by Fields) to replace maniples with fresh ones (modern thought is that things were probably more fluid and the front line was more or less solid when in combat) I tend to find setting troops out as maniples in quincunx rather pointless. I used to set them out like that…..
…..but now I set my legions out as solid lines: it's much easier and quicker to move stuff.
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Frederick | 17 Aug 2015 5:58 a.m. PST |
My legions are mostly early Imperial – but we have been thinking about some Punic War games and I have to say that we also like the solid lines for a legion |
mbsparta | 17 Aug 2015 6:02 a.m. PST |
I agree with Olicana … The quincunx formation, while looking cool, does not relate well to wargames where most Roman opponents are formed in solid lines. Rules writers either ignore the quincunx altogether or get caught up in special rules trying to make some tactical sense out of it. What does make some sense out of Roman deployment are supporting lines of maniples or cohorts and the ability for those lines to support. Mike B |
Gunfreak | 17 Aug 2015 7:42 a.m. PST |
Thanks! I'll stick with my old style then! |
BigRedBat | 17 Aug 2015 8:31 a.m. PST |
Looking very good Gunfreak! The difficult thing about the Polybian Romans is that the Roman units need to be much smaller than the opposing enemy units otherwise the Romans, deployed 4 units deep, end up with too many points on the same frontage as the opposition. In that case they tend not to get used, and the enemy line is usually twice as wide. For To the Strongest! I chose to make one large pike phalanx (or warband) face four small Roman units (velites, hastati, principes, triarii), one behind the other. They can be staggered to give an impression of the quincunx, and can be two stands wide with a gap between (however like Olicana I don't always bother with this).
Above is a shot in 15mm, and below a shot of phalanx fighting their way uphill at Pydna, in 28mm. link There's more about it here: link Cheers, Simon |
williamb | 17 Aug 2015 7:51 p.m. PST |
For "Scutarii" I have formations similar to those used by Simon, but Roman players usually keep the quincunx formation as it works better for the Romans.
Above is from a refight of Asculum.' Additional information at link |
BigRedBat | 18 Aug 2015 2:29 a.m. PST |
Looks very good William! Gives a real impression of mass. |
Yellow Admiral | 19 Aug 2015 8:34 p.m. PST |
Above is from a refight of Asculum. Ah, yes, fond memories. Those are my elephants on the Pyrrhic left marching to their own slaughter. I see my cavalry haven't run away yet… it must still be early in the battle. - Ix |
Yellow Admiral | 19 Aug 2015 8:43 p.m. PST |
I played in a Zama game once using home rules where I was able to march the Romans up in quincunx, but then deployed into a solid line with the hastati before contact. I kept the principes behind them in quincunx and used them to plug gaps when hastati units broke or pulled back. There were no special rules to allow this, it was just a flexible game with the right combination of unit sizes, move distances and combat/movement mechanics to enable this. I was very happy with the process and the appearance of the table. - Ix |