Tango01 | 15 Aug 2015 3:46 p.m. PST |
"The French historian Patrice Gueniffey, born in 1955, is director of the Raymond Aron Center for Political Research at Paris's l'Ecole des hautes études en sciences sociales (school of advanced studies in the social sciences). His "Bonaparte: 1769-1802," originally published by Gallimard in 2013, has recently been published in translation by Harvard University Press. Not long after the bicentenary of the Battle of Waterloo on June 18, the Forward's Benjamin Ivry spoke with Gueniffey about the thorny subject of Napoleon and the Jews. Benjamin Ivry: Napoleon was complex, to put it mildly, and his political and historical context even more so. Can it be said categorically whether he was good or bad for the Jews? Patrice Gueniffey: He was, I think, ultimately rather good [for the Jews], because his policies for the Jewish community in France and the Empire promoted their assimilation into the French nation. The French revolution liberated the Jews but did not assimilate them. Napoleon took up the case again and decided to do for the Jews what he had done for other religions. The French Jewish community became Europe's most assimilated during the 19th century. In his "History of the 19th Century," Jules Michelet writes of a "witty Englishman, Mr. Disraeli, who wished to make people believe that Napoleon was of Jewish origin." What do you say? There have been many myths and interpretations on the family origins of Napoleon. At Bonifacio at the extreme south of [his native] island of Corsica, there was a strongly established Jewish community, with many Italians but also Greeks. [François- René de Chateaubriand, who detested Napoleon, said he had African blood. Michelet, who detested him, said he had Jewish blood. We cannot know. [Napoleon's] family came from Tuscany. Did he have Jewish blood? Who can tell? It's possible, but his relationships with religions and peoples were always political in nature. When he dealt with Christians, Muslims and others, only political considerations mattered, not religious ones…" Full article here link Well, at least the "Ogre" will not be accused of anti-Semitic!(smile) Amicalement Armand |
rmaker | 15 Aug 2015 4:31 p.m. PST |
The French Jewish community became Europe's most assimilated during the 19th century. Didn't do Captain Dreyfus much good. |
Glengarry5 | 15 Aug 2015 6:23 p.m. PST |
German Jews were one of the most successfully intergrated populations in Europe and look what happened to them. |
MaggieC70 | 15 Aug 2015 10:04 p.m. PST |
Dreyfus was the victim of the late 19th century, entrenched, largely bourgeois, and bigoted mentality of the French officer corps. The British and German and Austrian officer corps were no better. |
von Winterfeldt | 16 Aug 2015 2:33 a.m. PST |
"Well, at least the "Ogre" will not be accused of anti-Semitic!(smile)" Some shadow – you might not like to read this Tango : link |
MaggieC70 | 16 Aug 2015 5:39 a.m. PST |
Always room for differing opinions, of course. But I tend to raise my eyebrow at anything Claude Ribbe has to say about anything. |
Gwydion | 16 Aug 2015 5:45 a.m. PST |
Perhaps the Three Decrees of 1808 (and the third in particular)throw a different light on his attitude. Not greatly different than the rest of European attitudes the latter destroyed the finances of many Jewish families and caused great hardship. The rest attempted to destroy the 'Jewishness' of the French Jews. Assimilation is different from acceptance. |
Gwydion | 16 Aug 2015 7:15 a.m. PST |
Have you got time for 2,000 years of history? (or 5775) |
Tango01 | 16 Aug 2015 12:31 p.m. PST |
Glup!… (smile) Amicalement Armand |
rmaker | 16 Aug 2015 3:23 p.m. PST |
Dreyfus was the victim of the late 19th century, entrenched, largely bourgeois, and bigoted mentality of the French officer corps. Ah, the old, old excuse. The fact that the leftist government made no attempt to interfere speaks for itself, as does the reportage of the leftist Paris press which, during the trial, was actually more virulently anti-Semitic than the conservative papers. |
Tango01 | 16 Aug 2015 11:41 p.m. PST |
Well… which country in Europe can be safe about the "anti-semitic" feel?. Amicalement Armand |
ThePeninsularWarin15mm | 17 Aug 2015 6:45 a.m. PST |
Napoleon had a healthy understanding of the Jewish tendency to remain outsiders in whichever society they chose to live within. He recognized their financial misdeeds and implemented ways to curve that and in essence, reform them. A pity it was not successful in the long term and adopted by other nations so as to avoid the numerous problems that would occur by pretending it doesn't exist. |
dibble | 17 Aug 2015 2:33 p.m. PST |
Though about British Jews of the period in general, this book also touches on the European and American too and is very interesting to boot! link Paul :) |
PhilinYuma | 21 Aug 2015 3:48 p.m. PST |
Went to your link, Paul, and was told that I couldn't use it for one reason or other. Went back (rather "puissanted") and it let me in. So if anyone else has the same experience, "try, try again"! I liked it well enough to buy a cheap copy on Amazon. Any discussion of the Jews under Napoleon's reign, should however, mention his Grand Sanhedrin which banned foreign Jews from entering the country without buying a residence in France and forgiving all debts to Jews by Frenchmen. This is a complex subject and reflects N's overall and not necessarily reprehensible goal of integrating Jewry into French civil life, but he was certainly not treating them as he did the population at large. Cheers, Phil |
PhilinYuma | 21 Aug 2015 4:12 p.m. PST |
Tango: Jules Michelet writes of a "witty Englishman, Mr. Disraeli, who wished to make people believe that Napoleon was of Jewish origin." This story, I think, relates to the running joke in England after the publication of Disraweli's bildungsroman Conningsby, which hints that a lot of important men are, in fact, Jewish. I remember seeing a cartoon of the period in which a dour Queen Victoia sits in the background. Two men are talking in the foreground, one holding the novel. The caption reads: "Do you suppose that she's one too?" It would be only a short leap to include Napoleon in this array.
Good fun, though! Cheers, Phil |