"British loose formations " Topic

Relatively inexperienced in the AWI arena, however I'm painting up troops for the Saratoga Campaign. I've heard talk about the British loosening their formations for AWI, and I know that they dropped from three ranks to two during this period, but what exactly constitutes loose ranks and "American Scramble" for that matter? And would it have applied at Saratoga?

I'm trying to determine basing for my units.

Thanks

Yes.

The formation was called order (18 inches apart) between the files. They could also go to open order (3 feet) and extended order (whatever distance was ordered for the spacing of the files).

They moved fast, carried the musket either at the recover or the trail when moving.

Ordered by General Howe, practiced at Halifax and after landing at NY. He took his experience from the F&I period and applied it to this war.

Ted Springs = "With Zeal and Bayonet Only" – great book.

I expect most rules deal with this be moving infantry stands further apart. So in terms of basing, you could probably just base 4 or 6 figures in two ranks and then separate out the bases when deploying into open or extended order. That's what's we do for "British Grenadier!" anyway (the standard base sizes are larger than those used for Napoleonics, for example, and that reflects the initial greater spacing between files: see here link

Giles

I base 4 figures to the stand per BG, then open them up an inch (or less) to show open files.

What Historygamer said.

I try to mount my figures on 1 inch round washers. That forces me to open up the spacing between my 25mm figures.

Just my thoughts.

Eric

Only one of the Saratoga regiments (the 47th) had been "re-trained" by Howe at Halifax, so it is arguable whether or not the bulk of Burgoyne's army had exactly this type of training passed on to them. However, we do have a note in Riedesel's journal of the campaign that he trained his men in British tactics, which included wider formations and "tree fighting" and had his men demonstrate their proficiency to Burgoyne and Simon Fraser prior to the march south from Canada. So I think it is fair to say that Burgoyne's and Howe's armies must have been operating in fairly similar fashion.

The expression "loose files and American scramble" is a quote from a British officer of the "European school" (it might even have been Dundas) who was suggesting that the more open formations used in America would not be appropriate in a European war where there was much more cavalry on the battlefield.

(The book "With zeal and bayonets only" is by Dr Matthew Spring.)

The issue of what formations were used in the American Revolution is more complicated than usually portrayed. While by the time of Yorktown American Continental units were operating in close order formations while their British counter parts were using the open and extended order formations the answer to what formation was being used at any given time should be, "it depends".

At Green Springs in 1781 American units were in close order and the British forces were in a combination of two and three rank close order, open order and extended order formations. The beauty was that well trained, veteran units provided commanders with lots of options.

Dundas indeed led the post war re-assessment that the open order formstions had not been the valuable innovation they were made out to be. Tarleton singled out the open order formation as one of the reasons he believed he lost at Cowpens.

The rules you are using should say what the basing is. At the very least the rules should have a recommended basing scheme.

I don't always love how rule sets do basing, my preference is to modify basing to more emulate "real life." If they are supposed to be shoulder to shoulder and three ranks deep per the tactics of the time that's how I want to base them. I don't like basing (I see it most noticeably in ACW and Naps) where there is considerable spacing between minis that are supposed to be elbow to elbow on reality. I know I'm picky but I have my preferences… I get cranky if I can't my ancients into actual shield walls…

Moving in the rugged terrain of North America required constant redressing of the ranks – if your troops happen to never move in a game, then tight, shoulder to shoulder figure stands would be the "order of the day", otherwise I'd puzzle that reality was far from such tidy lines.

I don't always love how rule sets do basing, my preference is to modify basing to more emulate "real life."
…
I know I'm picky but I have my preferences… I get cranky if I can't my ancients into actual shield walls…

I'm with you on that (especially about shieldwalls!). However, in the AWI better units were trained to adopt a few different formation orders, making it impossible to base them "right". When gluing miniatures permanently to bases, you just have to pick one order and go for it. If you base them in dense formations and the unit forms "open order", the usual mechanic to indicate "open order" is to spread out the stands with gaps in between, and it looks all wrong to have little blocks of 4-9 miniatures standing shoulder-to-shoulder in 2-3 ranks with gaps between the blocks.

I've been playing rules with variable size units that use variations on the line to indicate unit order: a double rank line means "closed order", a single rank line means "open order", and a single rank with spaces between stands to mean "skirmishing". Accordingly, I decided to the Guns of Liberty standard as the best compromise between aesthetics and game mechanics, and I put most my 15mm figures in a single rank on a 1" wide base, 2 figures per base. The illusion isn't perfect (there are no 3-rank lines), but a line of stands with 2 figures/base looks very skirmishy when deployed with gaps between stands and pretty solid standing base-to-base in two ranks. Larger 15mm/18mm figures look pretty close together, the "true 15s" look farther apart.

Later I acquired some bigger units with enough figures to base 3/base, which looks much more "drilled regular" in character. I only use this for units which will never have gaps between the stands (e.g. regular line units). I would really like to get all my Hessians based this way, but my Hessians are all Polly Oliver figures that don't fit 3-wide on a one inch base without staggering. Staggering Hessians would simply never do. Harumph!

- Ix