ochoin | 08 Aug 2015 1:01 p.m. PST |
I'm interested in hearing what individual gamers do about representing the paraphernalia associated with armies on the table top. I mean do your batteries have every limber, caisson, field forge? Are ammunition wagons provided for bespoke infantry units? Baggage wagons for each high ranking officer? Etc To do so certainly looks lovely but apart from time & expense, I worry about the possibly disproportionate battlefield footprint. Personally, my batteries get 1, representative limber ( a "short" one in ACW as per the F7F rules), a a few wagons etc per corps etc. Your practice & views? |
Allen57 | 08 Aug 2015 1:21 p.m. PST |
I do a bit of this kind of stuff usually for aesthetics. OTOH I have the Union artillery park on the table at Gettysburg as an objective for Pickett's charge. |
Rrobbyrobot | 08 Aug 2015 1:24 p.m. PST |
I don't find logistics very interesting. So, for most of my games, a single limber per gun/battery (depending on the rules I'm playing) will do. I only include baggage wagons and such if the scenario involves defending the baggage train, or some such… |
Clays Russians | 08 Aug 2015 1:32 p.m. PST |
Batteries are gun 4crew limber two horses 1teamster……. |
DisasterWargamer | 08 Aug 2015 1:44 p.m. PST |
Only if the scenario calls for objectives like that. Have a dozen or so more generic wagons and limbers that can be pressed into service. |
martin goddard | 08 Aug 2015 2:43 p.m. PST |
Interesting discussion. Because guns are represented at a diferent ratio to rank and file (usually) the gun model alone will probably be the right sized footprint. In many horse and musket sets the foot are 1:30 and guns 1:4?? Limbers look great as an aesthetic addition. Which is probably what miniature gaming is about. martin
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Weasel | 08 Aug 2015 3:03 p.m. PST |
Not terribly, unless the scenario is like a battle at a supply depot or something similar. |
Ottoathome | 08 Aug 2015 5:19 p.m. PST |
Yup. Working on it. I am finishing off my armies and have the last batch of limbers up on the painting table. Armies have wagons every game, they are necessary to rally off out of ammunition markers, and there is a Camp, Headquarters, and Line of Retreat stand (which also has a game function. Little Dioramas they are. Halfway through the Berline (coach) for Princess Trixie of Saxe Burlap und Schleswig Beerstein, which is a scratch built coach and team of siz, with sentres, general, equiriees, ladies in waiting, maids and so forth. Working up one for King Faustus of Bad Zu Wurst. For the siege train I am using Elephants to haul them about ( during peace time the Elephants are rented out to local fairs and circus' to give rides to the kiddies. My Turkish Army (Empire of Ikea) has the big huge heavy Turkish Guns. There are six of them. From left to right they are dioramas of the various stages of construction. On the right, a full gun set up ready to fire, as you go left you have various stages, one where the gun is being hoisted onto the bed, one where the wagons and stockades are being set up, all the way to the right most where the gun and bed are still on their wagons and pioneers are pouring over the site digging and measuring. Lot of conversion there, that's why it takes so much time. Of course I can use the limbers and wagons with other armies as well so they sometimes do double duty. I'm also working on sprucing up my terrain. The woods sections will all have various scenes around the outer edge in front of the inner box that hides the troops. These are almost universaly of fairy tales. hansel and Gretel, Little Red Riding hood, and so forth. One exception is that in one hex there is a gazebo with a couple en-flagrante delicto. in the next face a maid is running down the path. In the next face back, a bunch of beaters and gillis is raching after her and in the panel before that an old gouty husband is being pulled in a milk cart. You must remember. This is Imagi-Nation Land and here even the trolls are beautiful. Think trolls like Pier Gynt, not Tolkein. These are worlds of bumbling generals, puns abounding, inside jokes, lascivious countess' scheming maids and barbers, and unbounded silliness. All the stuff Ubercommando hates. My grand project is to create the Palance complex of the Princess. In front is the brilliant little jewel box of her palce, and then in a long oval trail through the woods, there's a Dragons Cave, a Japanese House, a house on a ship in a small lake, the Troll house, a Gingerbread house, a Siegfried's cave, and so forth. Limbers--- are child's play. |
coopman | 08 Aug 2015 5:26 p.m. PST |
I'm not enthralled with doing limbers, wagons, etc. They seem to always end up getting in the way. |
Tommy20 | 08 Aug 2015 9:56 p.m. PST |
That's kind of the point… |
ochoin | 09 Aug 2015 5:06 a.m. PST |
I guess it a topic that illustrates the compromises inherent in gaming. EG game Vs simulation or full dress Vs campaign dress. We all have to decide for ourselves what compromises we can live with. |
Martin Rapier | 09 Aug 2015 5:55 a.m. PST |
As above, it depends on the period, scenario and level of game. I do have a fair amount of limbers, cassions, wagons and even a couple of pontoon trains for horse & musket armies. How often they appear depends on how much time we have, for a quick club night game they are just more stuff to set up and put away. My colonial troops have piles of baggage – mules, camels, wagons, lines of porters, steam trains etc. These are usually fairly core to the game, so make regular appearances. My twentieth century armies also have a fair amount of logistic support, but you tend to get more of them appearing in higher level (operational) games. I have masses of guns for WW1 as I prefer to represent all the offboard artillery, but that isn't quite the same thing. |
IronDuke596 | 09 Aug 2015 7:43 a.m. PST |
I have limbers for every gun and an ammo caisson for every brigade (using GdeB 1:20). I usually have an engineering/pioneer group as well. As has been stated…they do indeed take up space as did the actual artillery support, so it forces the gamer to manage the battle space carefully. |
Jamesonsafari | 09 Aug 2015 8:14 a.m. PST |
Every army gets a B Echelon, even if only a token nod to all the off table activity. But don't have the funds to give every brigade an ammo caisson etc. |
zippyfusenet | 09 Aug 2015 10:07 a.m. PST |
I'm collecting and building limbers, caissons, wagons and pack beasts for my 25mm collection. That collection is aimed at skirmish gaming, and the baggage train is often an objective in kleine krieg scenarions. For my 15mm collections, which are built to game big battle rules, I usually don't bother unless the a rule set specifically calls for them, such as a DBA camp or DBM baggage. |
Winston Smith | 09 Aug 2015 4:14 p.m. PST |
I like to have limbers on the table precisely because they get in the way. |