billclo | 02 Aug 2015 4:53 a.m. PST |
I am looking for advice on decal paper,etc, for a decal project I am working on. I have someone who did the actual design for me in GIMP; they are for a Klingon D7 hull to turn it into a Ktinga. I have the hulls painted a yellowish green, and I had thought to print the wing decals in transparent and put them on top. Picture of what I mean: Base hull color:
With decal overlaid:
Which paper should I use? I see people mentioning inkjet and needing to seal it. I tried that route, with someone sending me pre-printed decals which I then sealed with a clear acrylic spray – which turned out to be way too thick). I also see people mentioning printing on matte photo paper and taking it to a print center to have printed on laser decal paper. What would you all recommend for this project? Obviously I need to scale the decal to the right size, and I had planned on printing on plain paper as needed to get the right size, etc. |
billclo | 02 Aug 2015 6:30 a.m. PST |
Well yes, I was aware of that website, but the video doesn't help me decide which paper/method to use. |
Heisler | 02 Aug 2015 6:44 a.m. PST |
Don't use a transparent decal paper for that. The yellow is not a bold enough color to show up well once it is applied. Use a white decal paper to "prime" the yellow and it will stand out on your model. Of course the problem with using white is that you will have to cut out each individual section and keep it very tight against your black lines. You can see my trials and tribulations with home made decals here: link link link link link |
John Treadaway | 02 Aug 2015 6:51 a.m. PST |
Cutting out those decals by hand woud be insane. Get the decals made professionally with a white underprint. Around £40.00 GBP or so an A4 sheet if you can supply the artwork. I could probably get decals for 40 models on a sheet – maybe more. It depends is £1.00 GBP a model is too much. John T |
Doms Decals | 02 Aug 2015 7:34 a.m. PST |
Good advice so far – really the only feasible way to home print those would be to use white decal paper, print the decals complete with a green surround, and then colour match the green paint with the green decal surround as best you can. You *can* get very good results that way, but it's a laborious bit of trial and error…. |
billclo | 02 Aug 2015 8:00 a.m. PST |
There is no way I would even attempt to cut out the decal sections by hand. The whole model is 1.75" long. I didn't want to try to paint with such precision; trying to do tiny decal sections like that wouldn't be much easier. The "yellow" is supposed to be a olive green type color (hex code 128, 128,0. I don't want it to stand out brightly. John, thank you VERY much for that information. I did not know I needed a white underprint. I would have been quite irritated after printing these at home to discover that they won't work. I found a couple companies here in the US that might be able to help me out. I'll update here when I have a price for the decals to be made. This is definitely turning into a pricier project than first anticipated. :( |
jwebster | 02 Aug 2015 12:21 p.m. PST |
Some really good information here If you find a US company that can underprint I would like to hear about that I have used the Testors decal sheets for inkjet and found that the clear ONLY works with a white background The white background paper is a little thicker and will not conform to an uneven surface so well. It is also harder to get it to blend in to the model so that you don't see that a decal has been used With the white background I added about the right background colour around the edge of he decal. Always print your decals out on paper first – it should only take a couple of trials to match the colour fairly well and a little brushing makes it blend well – I do a lot of highlighting and shading so changes in colour around the decal look good. Slightly darker colour at the decal edge will blend in well because it helps increase the contrast In the case of your spaceship I would make the decal the shape of the whole wing and stick the whole thing on. You could even paint the wing white and use the clear decal to get to the colours you want. You would only have to blend in at the edge of the wing, which you would probably highlight anyway. Sticking on individual shapes it would be really hard to get them to align. Sealing the inkjet decal is not too hard – I used the testors sealer just so that wouldn't be a factor when I started. I doubt that I will replace the can when it is used up. Very thin layers. I haven't experimented but you may only need only 1 very thin layer to waterproof the decal and then it will be easier to get it to conform to the model surface. I have a cheap printer with pigment inks. They are going to be inherently more waterproof than dyes and are more lightfast. I would only use manufacturers' inks as you are going to get more inconsistency with aftermarket inks. So far I have done a lot of 10mm ancients shields and some Samurai Mon for 28mm. You need different approaches. It is very easy with design software to get a pattern that looks great on a monitor but doesn't work on the figure. Again, print on paper, cut it out and stick it temporarily on the figure. Then look at it from a distance. Do you need to tweak the contrast ? Does all the loving detail you put look like mush ? For my Samurai mon I took a pattern from a book, but then changed the proportions to make it more visible. Let us know how you get on John |
Crucible Orc | 02 Aug 2015 1:08 p.m. PST |
i Have a Starblazers White Comet Empire carrier group that i put all the markings on the launch decks for. what i did was actually sized and print off markings on white paper in their places relative to each other, similar to what Jwebster suggested for temporary tests. but i did it permanently and used a bit of liquid green stuff to disguise the edges. could you not just do the same thing? either colour match the green to your model, or print it out on white paper and use a fine brush to fill in the green? even just get some lighter weight/thickness paper for it. since your effectively covering the entire top surface, it should be way easier and cheaper then trying to get decals made. |
billclo | 02 Aug 2015 3:54 p.m. PST |
Hmm… some good suggestions here. Let me find out if any companies in the US can do this for me, and if the price isn't too high. One company already said no, waiting to hear from the other one. I'll think about the other ideas and maybe print out a test decal or two on white paper and see how it really looks on the model. Thanks and I'll update as I get more info. |
Heisler | 02 Aug 2015 5:40 p.m. PST |
There are a number of companies that make custom decals for the model railroad group, that's probably the place I would start. They have lot's of experience and many of them can do white decals. |
billclo | 03 Aug 2015 12:15 p.m. PST |
I have been messing around with printing on glossy photo paper (all I had on hand) the rear wing graphics. It's interesting, depending on the lighting, the filled in hull color between the graphics is either too dark or too light. I could live with slightly too bright as the graphics are supposed to be raised areas (which tend to be brighter) anyways. If I were to go with printing on photo paper and sticking it to the model, what would be the best way to adhere it to the miniature? My first preference would be a decal with white under printing, but if I can't get that, then I am willing to try white backed decal paper with the "proper" hull color guesstimated between the colored wing panels. Last resort would be the print on photo paper and glue it on to the model, touching up the white paper edges with hull colored paint. It was kind of tricky getting the graphic to fit on the model; the curved wings (as seen from the front or rear) ensured that the graphic wasn't a perfect fit. I found it better to cut the graphic into 3 portions (L wing, R wing, and center) and put them on that way. |
billclo | 04 Aug 2015 2:59 a.m. PST |
These guys are looking promising as a decal source, but they aren't open to the public yet (supposed to be mid-August). fallouthobbies.com |
Heisler | 04 Aug 2015 6:06 a.m. PST |
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billclo | 04 Aug 2015 7:57 a.m. PST |
Heiser, tried them. They can't do what I need. |
LeonAdler | 09 Aug 2015 10:45 a.m. PST |
I'd just design a decal that did the whole top sections, insgnia and hull colour in one go and then print on white Laser decal paper. With a slightly darker border round the edge. Use some matt photo paper to test print until you get the colours right and that should do it. Most of the decal laser papers seem to work ok, I print on a Xerox Phaser. If you use transparent paper less of a problem to match colours of course but in my experience clear needs to go on to white primer for the colours to to show properly.I'd advise two coats of nice smooth gloss varnish, well dried before application. L |
billclo | 09 Aug 2015 12:38 p.m. PST |
I haven't heard back from the second company about a quote, so I suspect that next week I will be ordering some white decal paper and doing the decals myself. I think I have the proper size figured out, but I'm sure there will be some trial and error involved in getting the size just right. Leon, I think I will be doing it the way you suggested. I have a pretty close color match done up and printed some test copies on glossy photo paper to test color, etc. I'm going to have to take the make your own decal plunge it seems. :) |
LeonAdler | 09 Aug 2015 1:19 p.m. PST |
billclo, One point I just remembered in case it doesnt say it on paper instructions, set paper type to 'light cardstock' or similar otherwise the rollers/fuser on a laser printer can smudge the ink. Should be reasonably easy to use some light weight paper to make a template by slow steps until you get it right either that or if you already have a plan drawing easier still. This is an example of what you can do with the technology these days, the sharks teeth and eyes and the numbers all laser prints. TMP link TMP link L |
billclo | 09 Aug 2015 3:12 p.m. PST |
I'll be using an inkjet printer. MicroMark's instructions say to set the printer to Transparency film if available. I don't know if the printer does them or not. I already cut apart the "decals" printed on photo paper to get a sense of the right size/alignment. Definitely will be doing the entire wing top (left and right), center decal, and command module top. Plus already have some other decals that should work okay on the front of the command module for windows, etc. This turned into more work than I wanted to do, but I think it will look good in the end. :) |
jwebster | 09 Aug 2015 3:23 p.m. PST |
Leon is that how you made the decals for your 10mm Ancients ? white backed laser decal paper ? what brand ? I made some of my own, but yours were better Thanks John |
billclo | 15 Aug 2015 3:04 a.m. PST |
I ended up ordering some decal paper from MicroMark and will report back when I've had a chance to print out some decals and apply them. |
billclo | 04 Mar 2016 8:04 a.m. PST |
Here is the final finished ship. I had a really difficult time matching the color between the wing panels to the hull. I had tested the color with photo paper, but apparently the color comes out different on Micromark decal paper. Or I am going totally blind. In any event, I don't want to mess with starting to color match all over again. I used Micromark white backed paper, and despite my best efforts to stay in the colored portion, got white edges and had to touch them up. Despite the color between the panels being a little too dark, I think it works okay, adding some contrast to the hull.
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Keifer113 | 20 Mar 2016 5:41 p.m. PST |
I spent 800 dollars on a color laser printer to do decals for Warhammer 40K. I use Papilio laser decal paper, soft for curved surfaces. I never use white paper because it is too thick, I use clear. The decals I make have outlines for all white, so I just put them on a white surface and then paint around the edges. |