"Here’s what would happen if every US state..." Topic

… declared war on each other

"These are the accounts of the Second American Civil War, also known as the Wars of Reunification and the American Warring States Period.

After the breakup many wondered which states would come out in control of the power void created by the dissolution of the United States. There were many with little chance against several of the larger more powerful states. The states in possession of a large population, predisposition for military bases and a population open to the idea of warfare fared the best. In the long term we would look to states with self-sufficiency and long term military capabilities."

link

If you know anything about California/Arizona/Nevada relations, you'd know this is dribble. I think this would be a fun near future/modern scenario with limitless gaming potential.

Interesting. The economic war, embargoes, foreign alliances, etc would be more of an issue than invasion of other states at first. Only after the politicians are quickly seen as ineffective and states begin alliances, both foreign and domestic, would the shooting begin. It seems that there are those in other parts of the world who are thinking like those in the the states who would like to see less federal control and more autonomy, less government control and more individual freedom. This scenario could play out in other countries, or geo-political and economic spheres. You are right, limitless gaming potential, and already being played out in Britain. (VBCW)

Texas would win cause everybody wants to be a Texican deep down.

What keeps California from slipping into the ocean?

You know cosmicbank, recent news stories here in SoCal say be ready for a major quake any day now. I guess soon we will be an island.

Interesting, but it ignores the far more likely scenario of regional alliances forming. The six New England states individually aren't all that impressive; the six New England states in some sort of federation could be a contender. That's just one example.

-Will

Might make for a fun campaign game.

Also, I feel bad for any fool mad enough to attempt to invade Vermont, though realistically, there'd be alliances made.

Apparently there is not any problem for anyone to obtain fuel, av gas, or ammunition. And why is the rest of the world sitting on their thumbs instead of taking advantage of the situation?

Agree that it has gaming potential. I have two ideas for a 2nd civil war. One takes place between the world wars, while the other involves a Chinese backed California puppet state vs. the Republic of Texas, which is allied with Nevada and break away elements of the California Nation Guard. I haven't given the Plains States and East any thought as of now.

And Ohio is not going to fall to Illinois, so let's get rid of that foolish thought right now.

How would you want to game it and what size figures? Large battles with 6mm? Skirmishes with 25s? Something in between? 10s, 15s, 1/72?

79thPA. That second set of forces you have sounds like it would make for some fun gaming. I like 28mm myself, smaller skirmish stuff with maybe some civilian militia thrown in. But there's potential there for larger desert battles with lots of armor too.

Good for gaming scenarios, but not much else. Too many variables not factored in.

Crimson Skies.

The idea that every state would remain an intact political body bears some scrutiny.

Western Washington state and the eastern half are night and day. More likely eastern Washington would join Idaho and eastern Oregon. Seattle, Tacoma, Portland, and Eugene would probably form an alliance.

I'm sure there are other examples. How many times has Northern California tried to form its own government?

Not sure how much of an industrial military base most states have, nor if any existing weapon system is made entirely or even mostly in one state.

Since few states have gas distilleries, it would be interesting to see how any non-coastal states would have moving vehicles.

Can see a heavy push to recover all those tanks and artillery pieces from the local VFW, American Legion Posts and town halls.

Geography would be major factor: some states are simply indefensible and others are near fortresses with natural lines of defense (rivers, lakes and mountains). Blow a few bridges down and one can easily defend the rest. Same for transportation, states would become much more dependent on railroads and water movement.

Dan

Of course, how many states could support themselves financially, let alone on a war footing is an open question as well.

Who produces something that can be sold on the global market?

What keeps California from slipping into the ocean?

Our inflated egos.

California uber alles!

A Very Silly Civil War?
Who makes figures for it?

Right. Why should states remain intact? Manhattan invades Staten Island, with Brooklyn auxiliaries.

The Mormons would be a well run power bloc. In the "fastness of the Rocky Mountains", etc.

And come on you guys, what part of "apocalypse" do you not understand? It has to be global or it doesn't count. That means that, other than the odd boat here or there, no military exists that could exploit our "weakness". They'd all be as bad or worse off where they are….

sounds like twilight 2000!

If the Federal Government couldn't keep the states together, what makes you think that the IDIOTS in Sacramento could keep the rural (red state) parts of California from decamping to join Nevada or Oregon or forming the state of Jefferson?

soj51.net

Trust me, we don't want any more Californians up here. We've seen how you drive ;)

long live the free independent state of Massachusetts!!

Cool article, reminded me of the TV show "Jericho"
But where is North Korea and China?

That's okay Weasel. I just got back from a camping trip up there. The most startling observation was that the only people in Oregon with suntans are the Ducks Cheerleaders.

All will bow before the might of the California Burrito and Carne Asada Fries!

I claim the Second Califronian Empire, long live Emperor Norton II !!!!

New York isn't called the Empire State for nothing.

It would make a great monster board game, a great role-playing game, a great background for miniature gaming at all levels. I would put the rest of the world in the same straits to forestall massive incursions, no NBC use and add mercenaries from abroad. Air parity at best and limited nav ops due to fuel and maintenance. All those brand new armored wheeled vehicles would be worth their weight in gold. Fuel and armament situation would be reflected by 'surge-kriegs', like WWII North Africa as the supply situation ebbs and flows. Deterioration of services could demoralise your population and quality of troops.

Eventually, it would end up like 'Mad Max' unless the factions get their act together.

Hard to blitz when all you have left are AR-7's and mountain bikes.

I hear that the conquest of Delaware is accomplished by five grocery clerks and a wheelbarrow full of geese.

I would gladly give Philadelphia to New Jersey.

What about Mexico landing a "helping hand" to Arizona and New Mexico to restore peace, order and the historical rule of Mexico to the region?

Not to mention Canada welcoming Vermont, New Hampshire and Maine into peace, order and good government (at least that's what the Constitution says)

Might be an interesting variant on AH's Diplomacy.

"The Texas army in North Central Texas --> Great Plains Oklahoma. The Texan army in the Panhandle supports the Texas army in the North Central Texas --> Great Plains Oklahoma. The Texas army in Central Texas --> Northeast Texas. "

Carne68 – It rains 367 days of the year here :-)

Besides, we legalized weed and we have more strip clubs than pretty much anywhere else. What are we going to be doing outside?

And here's the problem: who makes irregulars in western dress with western weapons? Regular US only goes so far and there just aren't that many Warpac weapons in the US.

Yah, would need some western equivalent of "little green men".
Reasonably army looking, not too regimented, with a bit of variety in the armaments.

As an aside, I'd be wary of the "a population open to the idea of warfare fared the best." nonsense from the article.
Everyone is open to the idea of warfare, when invaders start looting your stuff and shooting your friends.

Mixed SWAT and Regular uniforms more likely. Shouldn't be a problem in 1/72nd.

Interesting ideas for scenarios for sure…

Weasel, most "militia" Ive seen look like this

link

Around here, they're a lot wider around the waist ;-)

Wargames Factory survivors should work for 28mm gaming.

Rob

And Crimson Skies had be a more realistic assessment than the article…

Rob

I would play it out in 15's, there's enough stuff out there to make up several different forces.

Yeah, the article is kind of garbage, but the idea is fun to play around with.

If you were really ambitious, have factions battle it out within states.

Put a player in charge of a faction that is a minority power in 3 adjacent states, that sort of stuff.