TheKing30 | 22 Jul 2015 10:04 a.m. PST |
Just a question – anyone know what the attendance numbers were for H'Con 2015? |
flicking wargamer | 22 Jul 2015 10:42 a.m. PST |
They won't have the official numbers for a while. |
Winston Smith | 22 Jul 2015 12:44 p.m. PST |
This involves complicated mathematics. Like counting. |
TheKing30 | 22 Jul 2015 1:56 p.m. PST |
Should I volunteer my fingers and toes??? Just kidding.. |
HMS Exeter | 22 Jul 2015 3:34 p.m. PST |
Just an impression, but it seemed crowded to me. |
jpipes | 22 Jul 2015 4:13 p.m. PST |
The venue seemed packed to me as well. |
historygamer | 22 Jul 2015 4:37 p.m. PST |
The numbers have already been reported to the BOD as of Sunday morning by the CD. SOP. |
historygamer | 22 Jul 2015 5:36 p.m. PST |
For the FCC to be packed, and since it has 1/3 more floor space than the Host (at twice the price), it would need attendance of about 4,400 – roughly – to be packed. That would be a good problem to have. |
dBerczerk | 22 Jul 2015 6:28 p.m. PST |
Kilroy was there on Friday. |
rmcaras | 22 Jul 2015 7:43 p.m. PST |
|
shthar | 22 Jul 2015 7:53 p.m. PST |
Almost eveyone I talked to said it was less than 2014. |
sgibson | 22 Jul 2015 8:13 p.m. PST |
Historicon felt more crowded this year than last. |
historygamer | 22 Jul 2015 8:23 p.m. PST |
Interesting there have been a number of comments about a lack of games to play in. I wonder if HMGS has any idea how many games actually took place vs attendees, by day parts, etc. |
atom12 | 22 Jul 2015 9:52 p.m. PST |
I ran two demo games Friday and had to turn away people for both. First time I had to do this in a while. Usually my afternoon game is empty. looking around the rooms most games seemed full and all tables where being used. Adam |
Bosco05 | 23 Jul 2015 2:31 a.m. PST |
I had 2 games listed in the PEL and ran both a second time in the evening and had to turn away players from all 4 games. HCON 2015 seemed to be slightly more crowded than 2014 but that's hard to judge from an individuals perspective. I can say the general gaming area was much more active than previous HCON's |
dbf1676 | 23 Jul 2015 6:52 a.m. PST |
It seemed more crowded to me. We had 11 people who wanted to play our game with 8 slots. All the tables around us were full. In fact, if I had any complaint, it was that we kept bumping into people who were at the tables next to us. Last year we used the same table, in the middle of the main hall, on the same day and time, and most of the tables around us were not in use. Last year there were plenty of empty chairs, this year we had to hunt them down. Of course this doesn't mean that there were more (or fewer) attendees than last year. I agree that it takes too long to find out the actual attendance, although this has been the case generally for years. Whatever the final figures are, someone will quarrel with them. |
kayjay | 23 Jul 2015 7:07 a.m. PST |
"The numbers have already been reported to the BOD as of Sunday morning by the CD. SOP." I was at the meeting and they were not reported. There is no way to get good attendance numbers out of YM that fast (or money numbers as the bank doesn't even count weekend deposits until Monday and CC don't post for 3 to 4 days) especially if the main people involved are busy packing up the reg desk and Hobby U. It seems to me your intent is to imply that the BOD has the numbers and is hiding them. Kevin Kelley |
demiurgex | 23 Jul 2015 8:04 a.m. PST |
Attendance was up? Geez, guys, I'm sorry, I know that isn't what you were hoping for. This stuff is so transparent, and so childish. Hope everyone who went had a great time, just like I do for the cons in PA. |
jefritrout | 23 Jul 2015 8:06 a.m. PST |
This is all anecdotal, but I definitely think that it was busier than last year. My game didn't have that many folks play, but I wanted to play a game that had 9 slots and 13 guys showed up. Another with 6 slots had 11 guys and the GM managed to squeeze in 8. There just seemed more games, more folks and less chairs than in 2014. Thursday on the other hand seemed lighter than normal, but Friday and Saturday were quite full. |
civildisobedience | 23 Jul 2015 9:40 a.m. PST |
demiurgex, Nice snark there, but . Not agreeing with the move is NOT the same thing as wishing for it to fail. Not agreeing with the way HMGS has operated is NOT the same thing as wanting the cons to fail. Simply mentioning that attendance has dropped off a cliff since we left the Host is NOT the same thing as wishing the cons would fail. I know it keeps it a lot simpler to look at things that way and to demonize those who have different opinions. We wouldn't want to make anyone's head hurt from having to think about anything on more than the most simplistic levels. FYI, I think the move was a mistake, and I am very negative on the way HMGS has operated recently. I have also attended ALL FOUR Fredericksburg events. I have run multiple events at three of those. I just ran three events at this Hcon, two of which won silly little statues (mostly because my friends and I spent many, many hours building the battlefields). So, not to take the complexities of this debate to advanced astrophysics levels, but it is actually possible to have a problem with what was done but still support the convention program. And for the record, I also felt that it seemed that attendance was up a bit. I also felt there weren't enough games. The book seemed thin, and there were people looking to get into games everywhere. So, everyone who is so ready to criticize those upset that the con moved, get your act together and run some games next year. |
TheKing30 | 23 Jul 2015 10:49 a.m. PST |
Demiurgex, Why are you so uptight? I just asked for attendance numbers. Mr. Kelly was kind enough to respond. That pretty much sums up the discussion. |
Murphy | 23 Jul 2015 11:12 a.m. PST |
Civil…I think it was because in the past, we've actually had some TMP members in these discussions openly expressing that they hoped it would fail and fail miserably….. |
herzogbrian | 23 Jul 2015 11:38 a.m. PST |
Friday and Saturday afternoons were completely PACKED, with games on almost all tables. Traffic snarl-ups on I95 Saturday may have kept the day-trippers down and several dealers I know reported great numbers for Thurs & Fri with Sat being rather sad. It was my impression there seemed to be fewer games (at least player slots) as it was difficult at times to squeeze into a game. You better have had a ticket if you wanted into an evening game. Though I heard that a few games did have as many as 50% no-shows with no tickets on the pegs. |
JohnnyPainter | 23 Jul 2015 11:46 a.m. PST |
I95 used to scare me – but it is really easy to re-route around the city. it adds a little distance, but takes off a TON of time. I think we spent maybe 3 miles on I95 which wasn't bad. I haven't gone to HCon in a few years, but it felt fairly busy. There were some BEAUTIFUL tables set up – but it did seem to be lots of holes – like a lot of gamers, but not a lot of GMs |
demiurgex | 23 Jul 2015 12:50 p.m. PST |
I think the snark entered the thread a bit before I got here – you know, making fun of the board for not being able to count, and HG being his usual charming self insinuating there was intentional deception by the board. Same crap every year, by the same guys. @Civil – if you showed up and ran games, bully for you. then my comments weren't oriented toward you. But harping on attendance figures for Historicon, while ignoring a significant drop for Cold Wars, means this is a political issue. At least we don't have members actively calling for a boycott of 'southern' cons any more. Once again, hope everyone at HMGS that went to the con had a great time, and that all the HMGS events are successful. I know not everyone shares those sentiments. |
TheKing30 | 23 Jul 2015 1:09 p.m. PST |
I think the snark entered the thread a bit before I got here – you know, making fun of the board for not being able to count, and HG being his usual charming self insinuating there was intentional deception by the board I think you might even agree, some of the criticisms have been brought upon the BoD by their actions. As for offering my fingers and toes, heck, that just BEGGED to be said ;-) Now HG has been intimately involved in the operations of the BoD. Perhaps there was a time when the attendance numbers would have been known ASAP. With the registration system in place, I would think it's possible. But as Kevin explained that's not a reality. To clear the air – why did I ask? I was thinking of going next year. I need put in my vacation as soon as I can. Where I work it's almost a necessity – I work in IT and we have downtimes, on call schedules, etc. Frankly, from what I've read and heard, it's not worth it. Maybe the people I'm speaking with are tainted. If the numbers come back as lower than next year, then I'm not going to bother. If they come back higher than last year, then I'll seriously consider it. Now before you say that I'm self centered, etc. keep in mind that for me to get the vacations there are times that "heated arguments" occur (my manager is really not a great manager and it shows). So for me to get this time off is allot of work. I rarely say this, but maybe some time away from the keyboard might help. I know you recently lost a loved one and the can really take a toll on someone. I wish you all the best and hope there are no hard feelings. |
combatpainter | 23 Jul 2015 1:28 p.m. PST |
Every year it goes up. Never heard anything different. Don't know where all these new gamers come from. |
historygamer | 23 Jul 2015 1:47 p.m. PST |
Kevin: Not implying deception. You realize some of us worked this stuff long before many here came along. I worked the reg desk at the Penn Harris, so been around for a while. Perhaps the SOP has changed, but for decades the CD would attend the Sunday morning BOD meeting and report preliminary attendance numbers. I guess that has changed. Sorry to hear that the software system can't give you all some accurate numbers. |
WaltOHara | 23 Jul 2015 1:48 p.m. PST |
As a former CD, I believe you are required to report your best guestimate to the BoD on Sunday. It wasn't the final number back in my day; but reasonably close. I never kept that number a secret but I always added that it was a hand wave, but not a bad hand wave. Walt |
historygamer | 23 Jul 2015 3:01 p.m. PST |
Thank you Walt. :-) I heard those Sunday numbers repeated for years later in the morning. The numbers would never rise – as the badges had to be scrubbed for dups – though I am not sure that all CDs do that. I think I only participated in the Sunday count out once, IIRC. Lots of thankless jobs at cons. Thanks to all that do them. |
Dynaman8789 | 23 Jul 2015 3:11 p.m. PST |
Even if the attendance numbers are down Historicon is a GREAT con – if staying for more than a day. No need to wait for the numbers of attendees to come in for this year – get that vacation lined up. |
demiurgex | 23 Jul 2015 3:12 p.m. PST |
I think you might even agree, some of the criticisms have been brought upon the BoD by their actions. As for offering my fingers and toes, heck, that just BEGGED to be said ;-) Actually, I don't agree, and I find it a little odd that you would presume such. I think the board and CDs do a difficult job with little appreciation. I certainly don't agree with their every decision, but I've always couched my responses in terms of constructive criticism. I see on TMP all sorts of wild allegations on a regular basis, and there are active threads on such things on current forum. Needless to say, that isn't always addressed constructively. See the 'Star Chamber' thread. Now HG has been intimately involved in the operations of the BoD. Perhaps there was a time when the attendance numbers would have been known ASAP. With the registration system in place, I would think it's possible. But as Kevin explained that's not a reality. HG, the lets ban everything I don't like guy that constantly whines that the conventions aren't being run like he wants them to be run? OK. You direct your snark where you think its appropriate, allow me to do the same. To clear the air – why did I ask? I was thinking of going next year. I need put in my vacation as soon as I can. Where I work it's almost a necessity – I work in IT and we have downtimes, on call schedules, etc. Frankly, from what I've read and heard, it's not worth it. Maybe the people I'm speaking with are tainted. If the numbers come back as lower than next year, then I'm not going to bother. If they come back higher than last year, then I'll seriously consider it. Now before you say that I'm self centered, etc. keep in mind that for me to get the vacations there are times that "heated arguments" occur (my manager is really not a great manager and it shows). So for me to get this time off is allot of work. As I also work in IT. I find it to unusual to think you need 51 weeks notice before you plan your vacation next year. I think most people would find that to be an extremely odd situation. If the case, perhaps you should speak to HR. I do recall you being on the 'move the con!' bandwagon. Certainly lower attendance numbers helps that case.
I rarely say this, but maybe some time away from the keyboard might help. I know you recently lost a loved one and the can really take a toll on someone. I wish you all the best and hope there are no hard feelings. Very kind, but honestly, my snark on this issue came up prior to my father's passing, so I doubt this has anything to do with it. You might have noticed me pointing out that gloating over election results to the general population of the board was in poor taste. I also posted some serious snark at HG for his kindness in explaining how I've been playing the wrong type of games and was interfering with his ability to enjoy the convention he says he doesn't go to. I think after year 3 of seeing the same posts directed at the board and the choice of having the con near the location where the club was founded exceeded my personal snark scale. So perhaps I should be the better man, but I find little problem responding in kind. The fact that I have a politically unpouplar POV (the board is basically doing an OK job) and that the club is better served by having the three cons in different geographical areas doesn't mean I won't continue to make that point. Hope that this finds you and your loved ones well, and that you find a way to get out of that craptastic job you have posted you have. |
demiurgex | 23 Jul 2015 3:20 p.m. PST |
Posted on the HMGS group: Hi Jessee, First, Historicon 2016 is returning to the same location and is not currently relocating to New Jersey. Maybe sometime in the future. We don't have the official numbers yet. As of Friday, they were tracking the same as 2014, at just over 2,000 attendees. The only report I have is on games that were run. Historicon 2015 had 484 games plus tournaments that went on which is an increase of almost 40 from 2014 and 30 over 2013. Historicon had almost the same vendor count as 2014 and 2013. Paul Delaney Interesting that it was reported there were more games run, considering the narrative that there weren't enough games at the con. They've got 2 more years at FEC according to the contract. Personally I'd try to move it to the NE after that, but move Cold Wars down south. You'd have a con for each area for day trippers, and all 3 would be accessible to those going for 3-4 days. |
TheKing30 | 23 Jul 2015 4:27 p.m. PST |
As I also work in IT. I find it to unusual to think you need 51 weeks notice before you plan your vacation next year. I think most people would find that to be an extremely odd situation. If the case, perhaps you should speak to HR. To put it into perspective, I work in an IT department in a hospital. I can't tell you how many times my vacations have been denied because of upgrades, go-lives, etc. It's to the point where my lead has asked that I put my vacation in way in advance so there are minimal issues. Very kind, but honestly, my snark on this issue came up prior to my father's passing, so I doubt this has anything to do with it. You might have noticed me pointing out that gloating over election results to the general population of the board was in poor taste. I also posted some serious snark at HG for his kindness in explaining how I've been playing the wrong type of games and was interfering with his ability to enjoy the convention he says he doesn't go to I'll take your word for it. Yes, I'm definitely in the "move H'Con camp" but I'm a human being before anything. I hate to see people suffer. I know it's necessary, but I still don't enjoy hearing it or seeing it. The fact that I have a politically unpouplar POV (the board is basically doing an OK job) and that the club is better served by having the three cons in different geographical areas doesn't mean I won't continue to make that point. I wouldn't expect anything different. Funny thing – I'm a die hard conservative and some of my best friends are liberals. We may even find ourselves sitting at the same lunch table at a convention! Hope that this finds you and your loved ones well, and that you find a way to get out of that craptastic job you have posted you have. Thank you :-) |
doug redshirt | 23 Jul 2015 5:57 p.m. PST |
I work in a hospital also and if there is a certain time of year I need off, I really have to do it a year in advance. So if I wanted to go to Historicon next year, I have to put the time in now. Summers are really bad for time off. |
TheKing30 | 23 Jul 2015 6:35 p.m. PST |
I work in a hospital also and if there is a certain time of year I need off, I really have to do it a year in advance. So if I wanted to go to Historicon next year, I have to put the time in now. Summers are really bad for time off. I think that unless you work for a hospital, you don't understand the culture. You're on 24x7x365. We once had a datacenter issue on Xmas day and had to call people in! |
Disco Joe | 24 Jul 2015 6:40 a.m. PST |
I spoke with 2 people who were there on Thursday and Friday and they said attendance was light and there were a lot of empty gaming tables. |
tankette | 24 Jul 2015 8:20 a.m. PST |
I was there Wednesday through Saturday, departed Sunday morning to catch a flight back home. My impression was that the crowd was steady and I would venture that attendance was up a bit. The parking lot was full, and its a large parking lot. The Dealers' Hall had some vacancy, but I attribute that to some of the larger vendors either not making the trip (ON MILITARY MATTERS, THE LAST SQUARE, etc) or going out of business. The main gaming area always seemed to have some tables open, but considering there are other gaming rooms in the facility may explain that. All-in-all, a good convention. |
TSD101 | 24 Jul 2015 2:01 p.m. PST |
Dealers hall was light, as was the Flea Market. Plenty of empty tables at every session. I actually struggled to find something worth buying the entire convention. I did pick up an unopened box of Battlefront Cromwells for $20 USD and that was about it. Someone should go through the book and count the number of games run last year vs this year. I don't know what other people saw, but it seemed about the same crowd with maybe less games being run. I certainly had no problem finding a game to play at any point in the convention. |
TheKing30 | 25 Jul 2015 3:50 a.m. PST |
I understand at least one hotel still had rooms available on Saturday. |
tuscaloosa | 25 Jul 2015 9:23 a.m. PST |
My impression is, more games than last year and more attendees than last year. |
TheKing30 | 25 Jul 2015 9:24 a.m. PST |
The only report I have is on games that were run. Historicon 2015 had 484 games plus tournaments that went on which is an increase of almost 40 from 2014 and 30 over 2013. Almost makes me wonder if there were allot of gamemaster "no shows".. |
demiurgex | 27 Jul 2015 8:13 a.m. PST |
@TheKing30 – sorry, had to deal with the funeral over the last few days. I apologize for doubting you on the matter of your need for extensive preplanning on vacations. Almost everyone I know is in IT – the way you phrased it that it was based on working in the IT field, which certainly in the region I work on is demanding and requires quite a bit of time past the 40 hour work week but doesn't normally as restrictive as what you are describing, even when working for the DOD or critical infratstructure. If you had claimed it was due to working in the medical branch I would have understood immediately – the doctors in charge of the hospitals expect quite a lot. One of the reasons I don't work in that field. |
demiurgex | 27 Jul 2015 8:16 a.m. PST |
As far as the hotels go, three months out I tried to change hotels to one of the closer ones – none of them could accomodate me for all 4 days I wanted over the convention, though I could find stays for 2 nights at one. If there were still rooms available, it must have been due to cancellations. |
Bowman | 27 Jul 2015 11:49 a.m. PST |
I understand at least one hotel still had rooms available on Saturday.
If you mean the 3 hotels next to the FCC, they were sold out a while ago. I make my reservations a year in advance. Any openings would have been due to last minute cancellations. These are the toughest lodgings in all of the Cons. |
Ember52 | 27 Jul 2015 2:48 p.m. PST |
This year, were able to get a room at the Hampton 3-4 weeks before the Convention. It was due to a cancellation and we had to agree to book for a minimum of 4 nights. This was the only room available at the time and it was a smoking room so we came armed with Febreze (and needed it!). On Sunday this year, we booked a room at the Hampton for Historicon, 2016. You had to commit to a minimum of 3 nights. Bowman's right. The 3 adjacent hotels in Fredericksburg seem to fill up way quicker than the Host and other easy-walking-distance hotels/motels in Lancaster. Scott |
TheKing30 | 27 Jul 2015 7:05 p.m. PST |
I apologize for doubting you on the matter of your need for extensive preplanning on vacations. Almost everyone I know is in IT – the way you phrased it that it was based on working in the IT field, which certainly in the region I work on is demanding and requires quite a bit of time past the 40 hour work week but doesn't normally as restrictive as what you are describing, even when working for the DOD or critical infratstructure. Before this I was in IT in manufacturing and IT in publishing. Neither of these had the demands healthcare has. It's almost insane. |
vonLoudon | 30 Jul 2015 6:31 p.m. PST |
The Thursday flea market was very well attended. Best I've seen past two years. |
vicmagpa1 | 31 Jul 2015 6:42 p.m. PST |
i do not know in this day and age of computer technology. That it is hard ascertain how many people attended! push a button. answered! or are we still using paper counting methods like the SEC. i just hope that registration is not like previous cons. that is my only frustation. |
dbf1676 | 28 Oct 2015 12:00 p.m. PST |
Convention Director's report says 2450 at 2015 H'con. Attendance in 2014 was 2452. |