"Why do some wargamers see a 'need' to 'grow' the hobby" Topic

Is wargaming not a naturally growing sector?

Why do people feel this is important?

Slow day at work Kev?

Tend to agree with Kevan. While I'm quite happy to discuss my hobby with others and explain and share where appropriate I have no desire to 'sell' it or evangelise it to others. Doesn't particularly bother me that others do seem to think it important, just don't see the point myself.

It seems to me, based on the many threads here on the "greying hobby", that wargaming is a growing hobby in the UK and Europe, but is shrinking in the U.S. as the hobby there is failing to get new, younger recruits. My guess is that there is more of an imperative to get out and bang on doors to spread the word in the U.S. than there is elsewhere.

I don't really care whether the hobby grows or not. It's not my job to evangelize.
It will rise or fall on its own merits.

Same as the others, I am not a sales person for any of my hobbies. I don't actively try to recruit others but will freely talk with anyone that shows interest.

I suppose you could rationalise that the bigger the hobby, the bigger the market place & this might result in those King's Own Foot & Mouth regiment figures you've long coveted might be made to fill a burgeoning demand.

Probably a bit optimistic but you never know…..

At any rate, if any of our august TMPers feel the need to mount bicycles & knock on suburban doors to spread the Good News about wargaming to unsuspecting suburbanites: Good Luck!

Just try not to scare the children.

Dear KevinG

To answer your questions, war gaming IS a naturally growing hobby.

My proof of this is simple.

I first became acquainted with it and went into it in 1962. I am not the youngest person in war games, therefore it is naturally growing, and from what is readily apparent, growing quite well. If you disagree, ask Walt O'Hara to tell you about his "Wargaming Camp", go to a hobby store, or check out a large major US convention.

By the way, I'm in America and speaking about the American experience.

People feel it is important only to make old fart speeches in the "O woe is me the world is falling apart" genre bemoaning what is obviously not a problem. I usually find that those people, when you get younger gamers in the club, don't like all this "new blood doing things different and being disruptive (enthusiastic)."

I actively recruit people. I don't feel any sense of entitlement that it's the job of others to find me gamers. It isn't hard to get people into the hobby. You simply be nice to them.

I don't "do it for the hobby." There is no great overarching "overmind" or persona of the hobby to do it for. I do it because playing with toy soldiers is enormously great fun and I want others to have the chance to see it and have fun too.

So far, I've brought 13 people into the hobby.

It is economics--we need to grow the hobby so that all the aging members will have someone to sell their collections to at flea markets and on EBay.

I hear from too many people who would love to find an opponent, but can't find anyone they wouldn't have to drive 2 hours to meet. To me it's as simple as that more people in the hobby means more gaming for all of us.

Is wargaming a naturally growing sector? Sure, if by natural you mean people introducing new gamers to the hobby.

I tend to doubt the hobby is growing that much but one of the benefits of our ageing demographic is most of us have enough money to spend on our toys. So it does support a fair manufacturing base.

I would like to think that when I shuffle off this mortal coil my heirs could raise a few quid selling off my collection on ebay. That said I doubt they would want to so I'll probably just bequeath mine to the Society of Ancients and the Pike and Shot Society to be shared among the membership or sold for the benefit of the societies.

It would be nice to think that younger gamers new to the hobby would benefit.

I have always disagreed with the notion of "The Greying of the hobby".When I was first exposed to miniature wargaming at the ripe old age of 13 in 1977,EVERYBODY was middle aged. I was the only kid there.

Mr D said

"Slow day at work Kev?"

…..never a slow day for the self employed!…but something I contemplated in my first visit to the dawghouse

"I hear from too many people who would love to find an opponent, but can't find anyone they wouldn't have to drive 2 hours to meet. To me it's as simple as that more people in the hobby means more gaming for all of us."

Yeah, I agree with this, but when does it cross the line from helpful to selfish?

Yeah, I agree with this, but when does it cross the line from helpful to selfish?

Unless you're forcing people to play against their will, how would it be selfish?

I don't actively look for people to introduce gaming to, but I'll gladly show someone what wargaming is and play a demo game with them if they want. I'm far more likely to know someone who plays board games or RPGs and introduce them to wargaing then I am someone who hasn't. In my experience wargaming is far more enjoyable when you have a group of people with different interests and skills, not to mention different armies to fight against. Sometimes this means attracting new blood to the club.

Supply and Demand…if the gaming pool shrinks, the demand for gaming stuff shrinks, the companies that produce all that stuff we love shut their doors/diminish in number/ ability to make new stuff. The inverse is true.

We live in a world where the competition for "entertainment" is huge and much of it can be done from home now. That did not exist at this level 20 years ago.

A little proselytizing never hurts…

Afternoon Kev

'Yes' is the answer to your original question although it will be a variable depending upon each situation or location.

When I first started wargaming at club level there were only Napoleonic players, Ancients players and WW2 players and only one set of rules for each period and only one scale/size of figures.

Nowadays there are periods being played that I have never heard of including many fantasy/sci-fi/rpg periods. You can probably find a manufacturer/rule writer who will specialise in said period. The choices are overwhelming.

Having said that it is a diminishing hobby for me as I am now starting to sell off some of my collections as I don't expect to play them again in my advanced years. I don't play games at club/show/convention level any more as I concentrate more on raising funds for charity.

I still eat/sleep/play wargames, at home, with a few select friends. I still paint figures every day for several hours at a time and I still buy something 'shiny' every now and again.

I am a retired person now, gradually turning into an old man, my health is diminishing although my eyesight is better than many of my age. I still attend about half a dozen wargames shows every year but I must admit I do little to encourage 'new' players (apart from running a wargame blog) since that seems to be unnecessary. All the shows I go to seem to be bigger than last year but shows occasionally disappear from the circuit as do individuals from time to time.

The wargaming hobby is a burgeoning family of businesses/manufacturers/clubs/associations and is in pretty good health considering the state of the rest of the planet. I'll keep my bit going for a wee while yet.

Hi Jim,

Keep well

I am hoping that when I get my 'place' finally sorted You will be able to come along to the first big game.

Why be apathetic about sharing something you love?

"Unless you're forcing people to play against their will, how would it be selfish?"

When your aim is to provide you with opponents to play your game against rather than what they are actually interested in.

eg. My son was very keen on Lord of the Rings. So we got him some Uraki and elves and undead stuff to play. We didn't play other rules of what I already had. however, One of his favourite films is Memphis Belle so we have played a game of bag the hun.

If I pushed him to play ww2 ships or something else, that would have been selfish because it wasn't what he ever expressed an interest in.

As his interests moved on…he prefers doing BB guns as it ties in with his first person shooters.

• I firmly believe the "graying" is a myth. I've seen 50 year old editorials bemoaning and it and here we are.
  
• The US is HUGE. People forget that. I have three gaming groups here in the Chicago area. Travel time (each way) are 75 minutes, 75 minutes, 90 minutes. I am trying to organize a local group with mixed success, but a (board) game store just opened on my block.
  
• There has ALWAYS been competition for time and dollars.
  
• I have often seen grognards act in ways that I consider beyond rude. And while I have tough skin if you acted that way toward my 13YO that's the last that hobby would see of me. Yes, just be kind. That's how I got into board gaming as a kid.
  

It is economics--we need to grow the hobby so that all the aging members will have someone to sell their collections to at flea markets and on EBay.

It is economics--we need to shrink the hobby so supply of second hand figures grossly outweighs demand and I can get them cheaper.

I tend to doubt the hobby is growing that much but one of the benefits of our ageing demographic is most of us have enough money to spend on our toys. So it does support a fair manufacturing base.

This comment illustrates the fundamental issue with this type of question … how do you quantify the "size" of the hobby? More people or more disposable income? More players or more manufacturers? More of everything or less of nothing? Generally, we tend to talk past each other and chase around 'til we get tired becase we all aren't talking about the same thing.

Why be apathetic about sharing something you love?

solo-gamers still love wargaming, in fact they even love the wargaming excluding any social interaction. so the sharing is something beyond loving wargaming

EXPAND OR DIE!!

Hi Kev

'I am hoping that when I get my 'place' finally sorted You will be able to come along to the first big game.'

I would look forward to the day.

See you at Claymore, perhaps!

More players means more room for companies to make stuff.

EXPAND OR DIE!!

That's funny … my doctor just gave me the exact opposite advice.

That's funny … my doctor just gave me the exact opposite advice.

Sounds like a quack, Expand or die is always correct, I precribe half a gallon of melted butter a day, followed by bacon salad with melted butter and bacon grease dip.

For dinner ribs with melted butter with bacon bits in.

Desert is icecream with melted butter and bacon strizle.

Expansion means more players means more opponents. Sometimes you just get sick of the same old faces.

since I wargame I grow, first in length, the last years just in weihgt.
Does that count?

If we're going to get into what expanding means, then recruiting gamers & locking them in your basement between games shouldn't be counted as "expanding the hobby".

… oops!

"It puts the lotion in the basket!" ;)

That's a valid point kevan. My only observation would be that self pleasuring is a sexual act, but it isn't sex.

The word masturb….. gets bleeped.

The term "Shibboleth" explains all when you hear "Growing the hobby" invoked.

"That's a valid point kevan. My only observation would be that self pleasuring is a sexual act, but it isn't sex."

(I am slightly worried about how this could go, but keeping up with the non wargaming analogy goes a bit like this…)

yeah, but saying to other people that you have found that sex is great and they should try it is just plain weird …especially if your arguement is you enjoy it a lot as well

LOL! You're a prude kev ;)
That sort of boast accounts for about 5% of twitter and facebook posts.

….At least it broadens the description for hobby aids

Whoah! Rewind there a moment. We're not supposed to force people into playing?!? Oh heck. Hang on, I just need to dash down to the cellar…..

In my opinion growing the hobby or taking it to the next level has a definite profit motive. Some wargame related businesses were very busy pushing this around 2008 to 2010 in America. They are right to promote sales of their products as most of us believe in free societies but some wanted to use hobby organizations to further their own goals. Again I applaud good business practices, but things were getting a little sticky legally I fear in one wargame arena. Anyway that push is over as far as I know. Maybe the next phase is upon us since the bad economy has "recovered" somewhat as some see it. I don't but good luck to the entrepreneurs among us which does help wargaming in general and specifically at shows and conventions.

Is it not true that the things you hold dear and good and valuable you wish to see universalized? That is that everyone do it, and derive pleasure from it? I like playing with toy soldiers and the fun that it brings. I like the joy and sense of accomplishment from the modeling, painting, planning, and writing. Would I not want to share this with others? Is this not a type of sharing that does not diminish the original capital but only increases it to have kindred souls also interested in it. Do you not enjoy being at a convention among those of like mind and like interest who speak the same language and enjoy the same things?

You only feel a need to grow your hobby if you think it is dying or fading away….

Is it?

Don't think its even close to dying. There was 1979 when D&D ruled the world for a while and historicals dried up due to changes in sales for fantasy/role play. I was miffed like of people being a wargaming newbie, but good things happened. 15s expanded greatly aided by massive rule sets which led to HMGS declaring itself to the world and the 25s came back as well. Even boardgaming had a collapse and look at boardgames now. Some even look quite playable with the wooden blocks which interests me. The only thing I would caution is always have your own two armies available for a game and you will always have a game.