"d8 vs d6" Topic

I've yet to see a fantasy miniature game that doesn't exclusively use a d6 (or a derivative like d3 or d2), if anybody can point me to a counter example, I'd be extremely grateful.

How would people feel about using a d8 (or some other dice) assuming the rules were refactored appropriately?

I don't mind the d8 so much, it tends to land pretty flat

WFB?

"Bear Yourselves Valiantly" uses d10s for combat and morale

link

I've yet to see a fantasy miniature game that doesn't exclusively use a d6 (or a derivative like d3 or d2), if anybody can point me to a counter example, I'd be extremely grateful.

Good old Chronopia rules used exclusively D20.

Didn't the old D&D mass battle game use a range of different dice?

@Rich Bliss,

Are you referring to the old Battlesystems from way back in the 80s? I still have a copy of those rules, I'll have to look that up. I think you are right though, if memory serves that uses at least some of the range of roleplaying dragon dice, definitely the ten-sided for percentages.

I got your question backwards. Sorry. Caffeine had not kicked in yet.

Celtos uses d10's exclusively.

When we designed Sumpreme Warlord: Fantasy Bloodlust which were tactical rules, we used different types of dice rather than d6 to be able to reflect ethnic/racial capabilities rather than using modifiers. It worked out well. We used different dice for combat and command. We also playtested movement control but it did not make into the final set.
A very fast playing system which also had the trowback concept of counting casualties. It was a comparison of weapons types and defensive armor with whole and half castings being lost. If a half casting was inflicted, then a odd/even die roll was made to see if it was lost or rallied/saved.
We did these around 2001 and enjoyed them.

I was reading a month or so ago (in Vae Victis, the French wargaming mag) about a game system that uses different dice to represent different qualities of troops: something like d6 for greens, d8 for regulars, d10 for veterans, etc. Seemed like an elegant system. Now if I could just remember what it was called…

2nd Ed. BattleSystem (mass battles), by TSR, published in 1989, along with their BattleSystem Skirmish game, published in 1990, both used d4's through d12's. The stronger a unit's attack was, the larger the Attack Die (d4 – d12): roll one die for each figure attacking; a 4-5 scored one hit, a 6-8 scored two hits, etc.; figures had one, or more, hits each, which are applied until a figure, or multiples, are removed as casualties.

The Skirmish game was basically AD&D with combat drastically simplified: Fighters have one Hit per Level; other classes of characters had different (lower) Hits per Level, and it used d20's to determine successful attacks (using the THAC0 system, with RPG AC; number of hits caused was an amalgamation of min/max damage possible, based on weaponry, abilities, Level, etc., to determine which, and how many, dice were rolled).

Their Skirmish game was, IMO, a predecessor to 4th Ed. D&D: it required miniatures, it had a thin veneer of role playing, and it had XP and level advancement built into it. The role playing was not covered in detail, but it was there, nonetheless.

Both versions of BattleSystem can be found on e-Bay, or used book sellers. Both games are based on 2nd Ed. AD&D. It helps to have the RPG books, but they are not absolutely necessary. The RPG expansion rulebook, 2nd Ed. AD&D Tome of Magic, has new war spells in it, specifically written for use in BattleSystem mass battles games, so it does expand the rules a bit. Cheers!

Just a quick search through the library, and removing stuff already mentioned…

Ring of Rule uses D20.

Wargods of Aegypotus uses D10.

Fantasy Rules! from Chipco used D10s and D12s.

And finely, <1>BattleStorm used the ever-popular D30 (yes, the thirty-sided die, "because it rolls on forever") as their to-hit die, and any number of other dice for damage. .

I'm pretty sure that Bladestorm and War Law from Iron Crown Enterprises used Percentile dice.

On d6 vs d8:

Both Dreadball and Deadzone are designed by Jake Thornton, and use a similar mechanic for combat:

Attacker rolls 3 dice, and each die equal to or higher than his attack stat is a success.

Defender rolls 3 dice, and each die equal to or higher than his defense stats is a success.

Most successes win. (number of dice rolled can go up or down depending on modifiers. The target number for each die does not change)

Dreadball use d6. Deadzone uses d8.

I like the d8 better. It gives a wider range of stats, for more variation in skill levels.

Dreadball has over 16 teams now, and the limitations of the d6 become apparent – some teams just are not that different in stats than other teams.

I'm pretty sure that Bladestorm and War Law from Iron Crown Enterprises used Percentile dice.

War Law used percentile dice (D100), combined with a small boatload of charts to consult. However, Bladestorm only used D6 and D10 in the original rules, though the Bestiary supplement featured a couple of optional D100 tables.

Battlelust is another set of rules using D100, combined with D6.

Warhammer Fantasy Battle used a variety of dice in the early editions. 3rd edition (1987) used a mixture of D4, D6, D8, D10, D12, D20 and D100, though D6 was pretty dominant for most of the mechanisms. Realms of Chaos: Slaves to Darkness supplement included some D1000 tables for added variety. These were dropped from the 4th edition onwards.

Other sets from my collection using dice other than pure D6:
- Fantasy Warlord uses D4, D6, D8 and D100
- Clan War uses D10
- Fantasy Legend uses D10
- Crucible uses D12
- Chainmail uses D20 (at least 2001 version)
- Chronopia uses D20 (already mentioned)

If I have understood correctly, the new Frostgrave rules also use D20.

Yes using dice other than D6 will give you a great range of outcomes.

Actually if f you are seeking a nrormal distribution any 2dx is a good idea. You can mix and match to represent other distributins as well and use them to represent changes in quality.

So elite units hit in the 4-10 range, average in the 3-6 and 9-11, raw at 1-3 and 10-12 as a bad example

Actually if f you are seeking a nrormal distribution any 2dx is a good idea.

Actually that still gives just a pyramidical looking probability distribution. But if you would keep on adding more dice together, then the end result would start to slightly resemble normal distribution (though the dice sum distribution would still be discrete in nature).

Adding dice together yields a bell curve, with a higher probability of scoring middle numbers than either end of the scale. Using individual dice, as in rolling a d100, or percentile dice (two dice, one for units, the other for ten's), gives a flat probability for each possible value. Cheers!

2dx is a good idea

Yes like two D10's where you can get a spread from 1 – 100.

Far better than two D6's which only gives you a spread of 2 – 12.

So elite units hit in the 4-10 range, average in the 3-6 and 9-11, raw at 1-3 and 10-12

Thing is there would not really that big of difference between an Elite Unit and a Milita Unit when shooting.

They would both be in the 25-35% in shooting.

Where the difference will be is in staying around.

The Elite unit would stick around longer while the Milita unit would break sooner.

So it is with Morale where you need to focus.