"The Eagle's Last Triumph - Uffindell" Topic

Hello

Just read and reviewed the recent reprint of The Eagle's Last Triumph, by Andrew Uffindell:

link

I loved it! Uffindell tells the story of Ligny with real verve, also placing it in its fuller context, and analysing the events in addition to relating them. The book also benefits from info that'll help visitors make the most of a trip to the modern day battlefield.

The book is excellent both in its many parts, and as a whole, I think. Aside from excellent narratives of both Ligny and Quatre Bras, a couple of other elements really deserve mention: Uffindell's account of the ways in which the Prussian leadership and forces differed from both the French and British/Allied equivalents is very interesting; and the chapter entitled 'The Fatal Peregrinations Of D'Erlon' was particularly fascinating.

Anyhoo, please take a look.
Regards

Sebastian

+1

I agree, an excellent book. A title, even though published in 1994, is much preferable and detailed than some recent accounts of the action and also contains the all important losses and casualties.

But I hate it when they say a book has been updated. So what parts have been updated, I wonder?

Does it still only devote 30 pages to the actual battle? Seem to recall that was my initial, disappointed, response to the first edition.

Allan

"1815 The Waterloo Campaign, Wellington His German Allies and The Battles of Ligny and QB" by Hofschroer provided a particularly detailed account of the Battle "of Ligny" or whatever you call it. (Uffindell's is the better read overall I think).

Even the Wellington bashing of Peter Hof was more measured than I had expected.

Not sure Ligny makes for a great read generally. It is just attack and counterattack, buildings swapping hands a dozen times, units march and countermarch and very little individual account. There is no Ewart or Stiles seizing an eagle, there is no closing a gate, the defenders' tales of LHS, the race against time etc of Mt St Jean. Was it not all just a bit "featureless" despite its scale? I'll concede Blucher's fall and rescue and the d'Erlon arrival and departure……….

Thanks for the feedback guys.

@ Gazzola: yes, I know what you mean about 'updated'! As I mention in a note on my post, not having read the original '94 edition I can't really say if anything has indeed been updated, except for the obvious but hardly newsworthy additions of a tiny foreward by Andrew Roberts, and a minor amendment to acknowledge the reissue of the book on the bicentenary of Waterloo from the author in his intro!

@ Allan: yes, I too was struck – as noted in my review on my blog – by how small a portion of the overall book was devoted to a narrative of the action at Ligny itself. That chapter is indeed the same size as you mention (29 pages by my count, or 12% of the book).

However, I would say, in Uffindell's defence on this point – and leaving aside that this is an excellent book in all its parts – that both the build-up and aftermath are essential adjuncts.

And not only that, but also, when you factor in other parts of the book, for example the chapters Analysis of Napoleon's Last Military Victory (a further 13 pages), Losses At Ligny (5 pages), The Garrison of Ligny (7 pages), and the Guide to The Battlefields of Ligny Today (11 pages) – and leaving out the several pages of Ligny-specific material in the appendices, this brings the purely Ligny focussed parts of the book up to 65 pages, or roughly 30% of the book.

Personally speaking I was more disappointed in this respect when I read the Leonaur abridgement marketed as Jomini's account of Waterloo (actually just extracted from a much larger more general work), in which most of the book is a discussion of politics, only reaching its ostensible subject about halfway through the text!

If this latter is of any interest my review of that book can be read here:

link

@ Deadhead: yes, I know what you mean about Ligny! I think though, that perhaps it is just suffering from being less looked into than either Waterloo or Quatre Bras, especially by the Anglocentric English speaking historical tradition (the Hof-meister aside*). Uffindell also points out the difference in scale: Ligny was a far bigger battlefield. And, like the action at Plancenoit, between French and Prussians, it was particularly savage. The extract I quote in my post based on Lieut. Barral's memoirs is as savagely exciting as anything in the whole Waterloo campaign, for my money.

Regards, Sebastian

* I've got a couple of his as yet unread, inc. the one you cite, and his 'German Victory' one!

In terms of number of pages, I don't think people can dismiss the previous chapter 4: Approach of Battle, which discusses the movements of the troops on the battlefield and Bourmont's defection to the Allies. Plus there is further discussion on the battle in Chapter 10: Analysis of Napoleon's Last Military Victory. That more than doubles the page count.

And come on guys-'just attack and counter attack, buildings swapping hands a dozen times' That sounds like a pretty tough battle to me.

PH's book is good on the battle but I think we would all love more detail. With that in mind, I think everyone should write to George Nafziger asking him to write a book on the Hundred Days Campaign. I did inquire into this and was told he had no plans to, but if enough people made the request-who knows?

Gazzola, you are so right. FIBU is always going to be savage and the Prussians faced that on 16th and 18th far more than did the Allied Army. Ligny, Wavre and Plancenoit were absolute slaughters.

But do they make for great reading?

"The 10th Division advanced and captured Chapel St Beckham, but were outflanked by the Westphalian 101st and 82nd Divisions who promptly drove them out with heavy loss." Repeated over and over again. Indeed what is so missing (as Sebastian Palmer says above) is what the Anglophiles did, produce so many accounts of how they personally beat Boney (with some help from the Prussians, who arrived late, were invariably somehow drunk after that route march and proceeded to attack their allies as much as the French!)

There must be tales of closing gates, personal deeds, inspiring cavalry charges etc etc. This I think is still a huge gap in the 1815 literature…the human touch. Glover ahs done his best and Hohsch. does actually give a few little anecdotes in his 1815. His later "German Victory" is mind numbing for truly exhausting detail

It's some time since I read Hofshroer's book, but my impression is that he isn't that great a historian – in other words he's not so good at the art of evaluating and integrating the various accounts, thinking about what's missing and producing a coherent whole. Instead we get a string of detail and a lot of raw quotes. Uffindel is much better at the history bit. But PH no doubt gives you a better feel for what's in the primary sources and therefore is a useful complement. PH's maps are much better – unless AU's have been improved in the revised edition – which I haven't got.
I enjoyed AU's analysis of casualties at Ligny. This is rather convincing evidence that the quality of French troops was better than that of the Prussians – something that sometimes gets challenged.
Ligny is interesting because Napoleon achieved his victory in spite of significant numerical inferiority. None of the accounts that I have read quite gets to the bottom of how he managed this – or what Blucher should have done differently,

Hi

'…Napoleon achieved his victory in spite of significant numerical inferiority. None of the accounts that I have read quite gets to the bottom of how he managed this'

Doesn't AU go to painstaking lengths in the appendices or a later chapter as to how Blucher was 'feeding into combat' troops at a far higher ratio than Napoleon.

Unless I am thinking of another book (I have this tome stored away and read it several years ago).

flipper

Yes, the author does offer more detail in the later chapters, including Chapter 13. The Guide to Battlefield.

@ flipper: yes, AU does exactly that… Good recall!

deadhead

Yes, I think further study on this battle is much needed.

But I also think it does contain some of what you were looking for-

'Proud when his general complimented him on his soldiers' devotion, Franqois led them back to the sunken lane running into the village past the Farm d'en Haut. Franqois led the way with 100 men of the 30th, while the 96th Regiment followed in support. He ordered the men to keep silent. Suddenly, Prussian infantry appeared through the smoke. French and Prussians showed mutual astonishment at finding themselves so close to their enemy. Then Franqious struck his general's horse on the nose to make it get out of the line of fire….' and so on. (page 105)

The surprise bit would be good to introduce into a wargame, but not the following-

'General Henkel was himself in the thick of the fight at Ligny village. Perspiring profusely, he drank out of a soldier's cap filled from a puddle formed of liquid manure. Around him, he saw cannonballs snatching away his men and smashing them into bloody pulp.' (page 224)

Yes clearly the fact that Prussians were burning out more quickly than the French in the villages contributed to the victory. So did the under-utilisation of Thielemann's corps. But why did the Prussian command let these things happen? Could they have avoided it? Etc.

I'm not looking for answers to these questions now – but just pointing out that compared to the endless analysis of Waterloo and even Quatre Bras, the grand tactical aspects of Ligny aren't discussed enough – or not in English anyway.

Could not agree more. I'll bet there are countless great tales of courage and cowardice, of genius and incompetence, drama and hard slog.

But it simply does not come across. OK, that is because the "English" seem to have written the history of 1815. I want tales of gates being closed, farmhouses out of ammo and abandoned, the inside of a square, artillery facing the Imperial Guard and not retreating to square (HMMMM, doubts there), Blucher saying "By God sir, I have lost my horse" (to which his ADC replies etc)……….

I don't want tactics and certainly not strategy (too late by now for that). I want the personal account of a Landwehr 101st fallschirmjager or an Uhlan of the Gendarme d'Elite (they must have had such and if not I'll work on their rig)

Imagine (if the evidence is there) the books that caught my imagination in the 1970s, now suddenly covering Ligny and Wavre. Plancenoit is better, but this is of course because of where it was………..

The Prussians could rally after a severe thrashing. March many miles and not in a rout/retreat. Rally and then march again many miles west. Fight a nasty conflict in a BUA and then "because they were fresher" take on the pursuit. But they were rotten at one thing……. PR/Publicity…….

deadhead

It sounds like you are 'hooked' on Waterloo. LOL

But thankfully, every battle is different and has different combat elements, memoir accounts etc, otherwise studying military history (and playing wargames) would soon become utterly boring.

But let's hope someone does get to grips with Ligny and produce a more heavily detailed account. I'm sure most of us would love to see that happen. A lengthy and detailed account is certainly long overdue.

Totally hooked………

I only recently discovered Q Bras, with the various books released in the last 5 years. Even then, there are so many personal accounts of the human experience, to bring it to life.

I spent years addicted to Pear Harbour 07/12/41 (excuse UK spelling and dating). I still have models of every aircraft that took part and many a battleship, including the wreck of Arizona………and countless books.

Then it was WWII landing craft.

Oh, I forgot the Finnish Airforce of WWII……

I am not sure I will ever become bored with any of the above topics, but I did go through a spell of needing to know every detail of Blucher's march from Wavre to Plancenoit. So obsessed I did the trek and realised what urbanisation has done to southern Belgium.

A detailed account of Ligny (or even Wavre) needs the magic that personal accounts carry…they may not exist………the Prussians (more literate than the "British" then) seemed to prefer to just put it all behind them and forget it. Even Glover's Archive is largely senior officers telling us how they were actually rather useful on the day……"I said back to Wavre" "No I did"……

"This village fell to that regt. This French Regt counterattacked and took it with heavy losses including their commander. Von Beckham, aided by von Lampard rallied their troops and retook it with a ferocious attack. von Hurst (without actually crossing the line), von Moore and von Peters led their men onto victory…..

It is not great reading, to catch the imagination. Probably a great wargame, but I want to stand on a ridge and think "so this is where………"

deadhead

I am fascinated with the Battle of Waterloo, which is why I have bought so many flamin' books on it this year. It is also why I will probably fork out more and obtain Wellington's Hidden Heroes and Beckett's Waterloo Betrayed, which looks very interesting. I think the authors of those two books are probably the only authors who offer anything new concerning the battle. The rest are mainly repetitive texts going over the same old stuff and not as good or as informative as titles already long published.

But I guess we have all been spoilt, Waterloo wise, by the mass of texts covering the battle, and the various angles of course- British perspective, French perspective, German perspective etc. But there are many more battles that are equally as enjoyable and described in detail.

And I also think visiting the battlefields is a great thing to do. I have visited some of Napoleon's early Italian battlefields and most of the battlefields at the time were basically untouched. Walking them really brought history to life. And one had a ridge on which I did think 'So, this is where…'

But let's hope someone gets stuck into researching and writing up a detailed account of Ligny. I know I'll buy it.

Wellington's HH is said to be out next month and anything that casts a light on the DB contribution is worthwhile. Cornwell has been a bit hard on them and Slender Billy…but he is not the first.

Waterloo Betrayed is there on my Kindle for the flight to Tuscany!

deadhead

I think we would all be interested in knowing what you make of Waterloo Betrayed. Is it going to be a spectacular historical revelation or just another crazy idea like Napoleon reading the map incorrectly?

Let me stress I am no authority on this. There is an excellent discussion running right now on this very forum and I plan to try to contribute in detail.

It struck me as like many a book about JFK's assasination. Quite fascinating and very well researched indeed but not convinced in the end.

You will learn masses about the French pre invasion movements and that is far more interesting than you would imagine (the opposition forces are of course irrelevant to the book and its premise). Great reference for every piece of French correspondence in the campaign.

It is like reading a Hofschroer book on the Prussians. Page after page about what time a message was composed/sent/arrived/acted upon, but easier reading here.

I enjoyed it far more than the title suggested and may well get the hardback. Kindle does not make for easy referencing.

My doubts? Lack of an obvious motive. An unlikely scenario. The gamble Soult took in making relatively minor adjustments to messages, for which decent staff would have compensated. A traitor as Major General could have achieved far more as a spy and informant than as a saboteur, as suggested. Even if we accept the idea, the 1815 campaign still proved a very close run thing….which seems odd!

Finally the conspiracy vs cock-up controversy in history. JFK, NASA faking moon landings, Royal Family murder Di etc etc…………decades on no sane person has emerged with the smoking gun. Real Conspiracies never stay secret for long (Gulf of Tonkin, Watergate, Ultra etc etc.

Yes well worth a read and I will go back to it, with a pinch of salt

Just finished reading it. Its good as a general overview of Ligny, the events leading up to it and what happened shortly thereafter. However, I was both surprised and disappointed in how little of the book was actually devoted to the battle itself. If I had known that from the beginning, I never would have purchased it. I guess that's what happens when you buy books over the internet rather than a book store.

Hi

'However, I was both surprised and disappointed in how little of the book was actually devoted to the battle itself'

I noted this in my Amazon review (UK).

The lack of coverage made a relatively short lived battle seem even shorter!

Hello,

I have spent several years researching this battle and am currently re fighting it with posts giving updates on the forum.

Mr Ufindell's book is a good read but I too was a surprised to see how little was actually written about this battle which was on a similar scale to it's famous successor two days later. Hofschroer adds extra detail and indeed the recently released Osprey book is quite good.

However, to get a real perspective on the subject both Von Clauswitz and Colonel Silbornes works are what I would recommend. Von Clauswitz not only describes the campaign but provides a critical analysis of it, fascinating stuff from the man who was there.

I too like to read about the experiences of the combatants. Some of the 'dryer' accounts of what unit went where are all well and good, but quotes of the survivors bring the thing alive.

Ufindell does this to a degree, but Mr Field's ' Waterloo the French perspective' is with it's anecdotes takes you back in time as a comparison.

Nevertheless I personally feel that Ligny is unfairly treated as a bit of a sideshow compared to it's more famous successor. The forces present and blood spilt make it comparable to Waterloo with the Emperor's flawed victory creating the conditions for possibly the worlds most famous battle.

Well done to Mr Uffindell for raising it's profile.

The documentation of the Prussian contribution throughout the 100 Days is surprisingly sparse…..he made the best of what was available. Senior officers wrote what were largely self serving accounts (as in any army) but where are the Mercers, the Kincaids, etc?

The French version of the campaign relies on a minority of authors (one can imagine why), but the Prussian…? I can only assume they wanted to get home and forget the whole thing.

Actually, now I think of it, that seems………

I also was a bit disappointed in the brevity of the account of the actual battle when I read the original edition of the book.

The lack of information in English on Ligny probably just reflects the comparative dearth of English language books on the campaigns and battles of the First Empire that don't involve the British (when compared to the tidal wave of books on the Peninsula and Waterloo campaigns). It is, however, a whole lot worse for the French Revolutionary Wars campaigns that don't involve Bonaparte. It would be wonderful if someone could do a quality modern study of those campaigns. I can only hope.

Which author's Order of Battle information is more accurate- Hofschroer (1998) or Uffindell (2006)?

Hello,

I found this web site and John Franklin's Waterloo 1815 (2) book to be the best .Battle of Ligny 1815 : Napoleon : Blucher : Schlacht : Bataille
napolun.com › mirror › Ligny_1815.

I hope that it helps as I feel the other two are a bit thin.

Chris

Thanks very much!!!

How amusing that the link from C M Dodson seems to come up in Chinese script……….shame…would love to read further

C M DODSON

I hope that it helps as I feel the other two are a bit thin.

But this is rather err! Chinese, don't you think?

Paul :)

I read it a while back, I thought it was pretty good. Just a different angle.

Hello.

I have no idea why the Chinese variant has got involved, but apologies non the less.

The book is still recommended but try this link.

It worked for me.

link

Happy modelling

Chris