Tango01 | 16 Jul 2015 10:03 p.m. PST |
"In my previous post, I was describing two "magic systems" for a generic game engine. One more unique system talked about "demons." Despite having a more interesting mechanic, I thought I bet many people will find this a little odd – if I renamed this mechanic people would respond better and Even though the concept can use any mini, from any era, it'll be regarded as niche. The other "psychic powers" was very mainstream. I thought: I suspect people will respond more positively, even though it is a more generic, boring system, pigeonholed in the modern/sci fi periods…" Full text here link Amicalement Armand |
Ottoathome | 17 Jul 2015 5:07 a.m. PST |
This Topic has dawghouse catcher written all over it, but I'll bite simply because someone has to defend the "Judeo-Christians." "Biblical" battles have nothing to do with "Judeo-Christian" They simply come from the time periods that the Judeo-Christians came from. That means from oh 5,000 B.C. to oh 4 B.C. taking Torah to Golgotha. Lots of rules and battles there. What the author is talking about is in the pulp-horror-supernatural role playing field from the heritage of other cultures and ethical belief systems, and why not from the Judeo Christian.
This is untrue, AD&D has a heavy dose of the supernatural elements from the Judeo Christian. But it is always, as it is with all the facets from belief systems of other lands, as impersonal. That is the gamer approaches these things merely as tokens and phenomena that can be manipulated and used like tools with absolutely no personal ethical or philosophical attachment. They use a Lamassu or a Jin the same way they use a hammer to drive a nail. No one "believes" in their hammer the way people "believe" in a God or supernatural patron. The other factor is that Judeo-Christian, as well as Muslim sources are monotheistic. They require total dedication to a deity and not the quid-pro-quo of a polytheistic faith. They also posit the complete monopoly of power by the deity and that is that. Rebellions of fallen angels are no more capable of toppling God than holding up a lit match to a blizzard to stop it. Few gamers are comfortable with such extravagant demands for loyalty which is why few deal with them. In all three faiths, you can do nothing for God therefore there can be no bargaining with him. In them God can "do for you" but only if he wishes, not as thee wishes, and since he's already immortal, all seeing, etc, he has already done it. That is, he has created the world as it is and you must make your way in the world as it is. |
Dynaman8789 | 17 Jul 2015 5:48 a.m. PST |
D&D was developed in the US so it is only natural that it uses Christian terms for things since it helps make it accessible. Other games have used other backgrounds, GURPS has a setting based in pre-christian Rome for example. |
jpattern2 | 17 Jul 2015 7:05 a.m. PST |
The writer of the original blog post seems to have selective vision and/or amnesia. |
Gunfreak | 17 Jul 2015 8:07 a.m. PST |
Weather we want to/or don't Christianity/judeism/islam are living religions still evlolving and changing(no mater how much some try and stop that) Some might be offended by angles killing people, some might if it distatefull for characters to say by the power of god then bash a mans skull in, No one are offended by valkires killing or beeing badass. Just as if we wargame 2000 years from now and there is no islam left, people will be able to paint up mohammed and give him an awesome +15 damascus steel fire sword kiling evil Jins. Not so much now. On the why there is little ambrahamic mythology in RPGs and wargaming? Well it's boring. The most intresting part is the fall of Lucifer, angels and deamons ect. And that is also the only part that is much gamed or played with.
The other parts are boring. Also like most thing, No things is purely christian, angels and deamons have roots in older religions. Yes the deamons seen in say tv are often clearly a christian version of deamons. But lots of other mythos creatures can be called deamons with out any conection to christianity. |
Great War Ace | 17 Jul 2015 8:25 a.m. PST |
My gaming world is some fifty-three millennia in the future and includes a history of "Aeons" leading up to a final apocalypse. The "Judeo-Christian" "Millennium" was just the first, the "prototype" of the final "Sabbath of the World", which only comes at the end of the final (Seventh) Aeon. All of the fantasy RPG stuff we did (do? looks like a "resurrection" or reunion is possibly in the works) was many years before that finalizing war, giving us scope for endless games before "the end of all things" renders the world peaceful and boring. The religious content was injected by me to underlie everything so that gaming would continue to hold my interest…. |
Zargon | 17 Jul 2015 8:32 a.m. PST |
I have to be outraged! "Some might be offended by angles killing people," never ever has an angle killed people. Yes there are some obtuse angles who acted as acute and did harm in literature but never in real life. I am outrage on those cavalier attitude to angles as they are the building blocks of civilisation. |
skippy0001 | 17 Jul 2015 8:45 a.m. PST |
Angels killing people? ….uhhh Sodom and Gomorrah nukefest?..Nephelim? In the Prophecy film one line I like, "One wing raised toward Heaven, the other dipped in blood.." This is why I've always liked Empire of the Petal Throne and Talislanta. |
ArmymenRGreat | 17 Jul 2015 9:58 a.m. PST |
@skippy0001 – You missed the joke (which was extremely clever). |
skippy0001 | 17 Jul 2015 11:14 a.m. PST |
No I didn't-…wait, I did sort of…I just woke up when I wrote that. I thought it would turn into a Saxon/Angles debate. |
Weasel | 17 Jul 2015 11:39 a.m. PST |
Any and all mythology is fair game for gaming, in my opinion :-) RPG's almost always have a mythology going, whether it's pretty sketchy (D&D) or very in-depth (Runequest). It's maybe a bit harder to apply to wargaming, because religion doesn't really affect much on the tabletop. I'd play a game that had angels and devils with their human minions on both sides though. Especially if it came with kick-ass mini's on both sides. |
Henry Martini | 17 Jul 2015 4:40 p.m. PST |
Didn't West Wind do something of the sort years ago, complete with the usual rule set (Lucifer Wars)? |
Dave Crowell | 17 Jul 2015 6:01 p.m. PST |
I have known players who would not play games/characters that featured non-Christian religions. Oters have found Christian content distasteful. It's a fair bet that no matter what you put in your game someone somewhere will find it offensive. |
(Phil Dutre) | 18 Jul 2015 8:22 a.m. PST |
Judeo/Christian religion is too close to RL to introduce elements from it into a wargame. Unless you take the fantastical elements only, just as we do with other religions. We all introduce celtic/norse visuals in our games, but only the visuals. No gamer knows anything about the theology of these religions. And no, knowing that Odin is a guy on a big horse with 8 legs does not count. But, although biblical texts do contain some fantastical stuff that could be used in fantasy/medieval games as visuals or terminology, the connotation with certain current -day politics makes it an uncomfortable element to bring to the gaming table. |
Tango01 | 18 Jul 2015 11:16 a.m. PST |
What about "Moises" Wars? Plenty of combats there. Amicalement Armand
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Weasel | 19 Jul 2015 10:13 a.m. PST |
We were taught the Nordic mythology in school :-) |