"Hoplite Mercenaries For Saitic Egyptians?" Topic

I am bad at researching stuff. I really am. I try, and come back more confused than before I started.

I am putting together a Saitic Egyptian army for DBA 3.0, and I know that the bulk of the Spear elements should be mercenary Jplites. But it seems that there were a lot of different looks for hoplites over the years, and I can't seem to place them in any sort of chronological order, or figure which particular fkavor of hoplite was contemporaneous with the Saitic Egyptians.

Any help is appreciated. I am planning on using BTD figures as much as possible.

I'm no expert, but a quick glance at Wikipedia shows the Saitic Dynasty as (664–525 BC). If that is accurate then the greek mercenary hoplites would be basically the same as in the Persian War (battle of Marathon and the follow-up invasion).

For gaming purposes, that means they used 'early' helmet types (full-faced Corinthian helmets and simplified versions with a more open face), greaves and torso armour (bronze, scale or linothorax). Some greek warriors from that period also sometimes wore armour on the upper leg, arms and groin. Shields were NOT standardized, so would have a range of imagery and patterns, or be undecorated bronze faces.

I hope that's helpful!

Thank you so much!

Amy additional input is also welcome :-)

Do a web search for 7th and 6th century Greek Hoplite.

Here's a contemporary vase decoration from the 7th century showing hoplites in battle.

Looking at the old DBM army list for rough proportions, I'd divided the 6 Spear stands for DBA as: 1 Guard, 2-3 Levy, 2-3 Hoplite.

Thanks, guys. I know what I need to do now :-)

Looks like bronze muscle cuirass rather than linothorax.

@punkrabbitt returns,
The vase decoration supplied by TKindred is really good. I would add sandals and Assyrian-style socks worn under the greaves as depicted in "Armies of the Ancient Near East 3,000 BC to 539 BC" for hoplites employed by the Saite Pharaohs.

That early the hoplite system had not fully developed – some/many would carry 2 spears, one for throwing?

How late does the DBA list go? Does it include the post Persian conquest revolts?

You probably don't have to use Greeks if you don't want, there were enough native spearman hanging about.

Db

JC Lira,

I agree, that vase painting definitely shows bronze cuirasses. I was curious about whether linothorax would also have been in service, did a quick google search, and (from Wikipedia) it looks like it is descibed by Homer in the Iliad (not evidence that it was in use during the Trojan War, but shows that Homer knew of it during his period in the 8th century) and shows up in vase paintings in by the 7th century and hits its highest frequency in paintings right around the period of the Persian War.

Based on that, all three types of cuirasses (bronze, scale and lino) seem to be appropriate for equipping mercenaries serving in Saitic Egypt. Of the three, scale and linothorax, might actually be good choices for service in Egypt – both would still be quite hot, but at least they have a built-in layer of insulation between the metal parts and the skin (although I think a layer of clothing under the bronze cuirass was also normal – maybe the differences ould not have been that great, they all would have been punishing!)

I think Garrison Miniatures also has a good point, during that period at least some hoplites would probably have carried a throwing spear/javelin or two.

I think mercenaries would be most likely to have used Linothorax too, or no armour. Not only due to the heat, but they were probably not that well off!

Punkrabbit,

I just took a quick look through the BTD greek lines. It looks to me like most of the armoured figs from the "Athenian" line and the "Greek" line would work, as well as a few codes from the "Spartan" line.

The main thing to pick figs who mainly have the Corinthian helmets, like these:

link

Avoid figs that have the Pilos (cone-shaped) helmets, which were mainly a Spartan thing and in use after the Saitic dynasty. For example:

link

And:

link

Also, avoid figs with Thracian helmets, which were mainly from after the Saitc period. (bad pic, but I think these have them):

link

Overall, there should still be lots of BTD hoplites that fit your needs.

Have fun with the project!

Here's one army:

link

Warlord Games have some suitable figures

link

Others in their various command packs would do nicely too.

link

link

Who does a suitable 28mm Egyptian?

Isn't there information about the Saitic army in Herodotus?
IIRC they also used Carian mercenaries who were the original men of bronze and had equipment similar to hoplites, but with shields perhaps s little less diameter than the hoplite aspis and rimless. As many hopkite figures have separate shields it would be possible to build a Carian from a Greek with a dished rimless shield. The answer on sources for this would best come from Gurkan!

PR

Not sure if you have seen this WRG publication but it has some useful shots of Saitic Egyptian soldiers as well as "Men of Bronze".

link

Interesting army especially with the 4 horse heavy chariots and handy cavalry.

Vendel (SGT Major) and Eureka have some good looking Egyptians which may fit.

Excellent information -thnks very much.