"How to Choose Between Flames Of War & Bolt Action?" Topic

Having never played FoW or BA, I was wondering what makes them different or why one might be better than the other? I'm thinking about getting into one system and have no idea which I would be better off investing time and money in.

Thanks for the help!

Also, I hear (not sure) that FOW can have artillery on the table, while I think in BA only AT guns and such are on the table.

My suggestion: find out what the locals play and go play some of that first, before spending money and/or time.

As Kyote says, the biggest difference is the scale and, as a consequence, how many toys you want on the table.

FOW is 15mm, each "stand" is a half-squad of figures and battles are pretty big.

BA is 28mm, each figure is one guy and you tend to have a smaller army (in overall terms).

So is big skirmish your thing or battles?

Of course, if people in a local store already play one or the other, I'd just go with what they do.

Rules wise, they each have their own quirks, but they are reasonably similar in a lot of ways. Both are pretty "conventional" wargames without a lot of strange mechanics.

I game bolt action with 15mm figures. As a general rule, buy a FOW infantry platoon, base the figures individually, and you have the core of a bolt action army -- all you need to do is buy a tank and some support weapons. I.e., bolt action in 15mm is cheap to get into.

As a general rule, each are fun games. I think both are best with gamers more interested in fun games that with uber maximised lists. The bolt action lists are easier to 'game'. FOW suffers from the fact that people like to play with too many points, making armies expensive (in dollar terms) and tables crowded. Both are more game than simulation, so if you want realism, look at another set of rules.

And while I have both, FOW is the game I play each week, whereas bolt action is the game I play once a month when the mood strikes me.

Flames of War is a VERY abstracted idea of company level engagements in WW2, a sort of fighting it out with all the best bits in the box, eg a platoon of Tigers. a platoon of 88's etc.(You may have gathered I'm not a fan)

Bolt Action is a platoon level skirmish so not really comparable, I'd say look at Too FAT Lardie's Chain of Command as a comparative set of rules. Both sets have their merits, both worth a look.

Both sets are more " fantasy WW2", although many enjoy them- Even I have played Bolt Action. For more "realistic" WW2 gaming take a look at the Two Fat Lardies sets mentioned by Johny Boy. Battlegroup is also worth considering- can be played at any level from supported squad to battalion, depending on how much time and how many toys you have.

Bolt Action is easy to learn and can be played perfectly well in 15mm or 20mm. We play fairly large actions with 2/3/4 players on either side and it works out nicely – we do have some amendments to help improve the history admittedly.

I prefer BA myself.

You can use any size of figures for either rules. The only thing you may need to do is modify ground scales and ranges.

They are two different rules that fight two different sized engagements.

What kind of game are you looking to play. If you want to play with up to a platoon or so (roughly 24-36 infantrymen) of guys and a few support elements, BA is more geared to what you are looking for.

For BA I use my 15mm troops – looks better and plays just fine with ranges as listed.

As others stated the main difference is that BA is a platoon level game and FOW is a sorta (*) company level game.

(*) – Arty assets should not be on the table in this scale of a game, except perhaps mortars up to 81mm.

Bolt Action lends itself more towards skirmish actions with an emphasis on infantry -- the basic maneuver unit is the squad and a vehicle.

FoW tends towards platoon-level actions with an emphasis on armor, although infantry still has a role -- the basic maneuver unit is the platoon.

Neither one is known for being "historical" although, like all wargames, there are historical elements. But they are both fun to play in their own way.

Both games have some good YouTube commentaries.

I like this Bolt Action one – I think if you watched this and then one of the company videos on FOW, you will get a good idea of the differences.

LINK YouTube link

A platoon is normally 2-3 squads of infantry. A squad is roughly 8-12 men.

I like Chain of command rules over the other two. After a few games you begin to see how the subtleties of the rules make you think your activations of units.

If you're looking for a popular "Warhammer WWII" game FOW is it. It is also a game you should have no problem finding opponents with their own painted armies to play against.

BA is not as popular as FOW. Unless you can get a few of your gaming buddies to start their own armies, you may encounter difficulties finding opponents. Compounding this problem is that some people play BA in 20mm (1/72) or 15mm scale.

A third option is the Battlegroup set of rules, which is geared towards 20mm but can also be played in other scales. However, it has the same "you may lack opponents" issue as BA.

'Weasel' makes a very good and logical point, (at least for now) just join w/ whatever the 'locals' are playing and see what you think.
After all, if you buy BA for example, but FoW is 'the game' in your area, you could have a great army, but NO players to game with.
And by all means, if you get the chance, play them both a few times BEFORE you invest any money. Remember, the models these days, can very quickly run into some 'serious' dollar amounts.

Get both!

I play Bolt Action with several ex-warhammer players and we are loving it.
We are using the Warlord 28mm scale figures since we already had a pile of 28mm terrain. The new Warlord and Rubicon 1/56 scale kits are great, easy to assemble and look pretty darned good when painted up.
I use Battle Honors and Berlin or Bust figures for my army, having had them around for a long time before BA came along.
I tried out a few different sets of rules, but I must say BA has got the playability vs detail factor just about right for my taste.

Rather than add to the great advice you've had on this thread, I'd just like to point out that the 'luxury'assets a FOW company gets are not excessive if you are choosing to wargame a 'point of decision' rather than a quiet sector of the line. Armies rarely advance all along the line – one point will be the 'main effort', to use more modern terminology. And this tip of the spear or crucial last ditch defence covering the army's withdrawal absolutely would get as much Battalion, Brigade, Division, Corps or even Army level assets as it can handle. Certainly in the late war period, probably also mid-war.

Both are good games that I think get played often around the country. If you could play a game or two of each that would be the best way to decide which you prefer.

BA would be the one that would cost less to start off in 500 -1000 point games seem to be the norm. Maybe US$100 to get started. FOW at 1250-1500 points woould run about US$200.

I think the best advice is to see which one is being played in your area by people you will enjoy playing with and go with that.

If those are your only options, I would recommend FoW as it is more widely played and the authors' knowledge of WW2 is reflected in the rules. Personally I am not a fan of BA, although many others are. My main criticism is that it might play well as a game, but has little authentic WW2 feel. The last point is probably explained by the authors' admission that they did very little research when designing the game!

Each to their own of course, but if you are interested in platoon level actions (say 3 sections/squads of around 10 men each) plus some support (the odd tank or two, mortars, HMGs etc), I echo what some of the earlier posters have said and think you should have a look at Chain of Command. It is not a hard core game for fans of every detail, but it has a more authentic flavour than either FoW or BA in my view.

Good luck, whatever you go for.

As Some Chicken says, the designers of FOW do at least actually know something (well, quite a lot) about WW2, whereas the BA designers don't.

It should be noted that whichever game you pick, you can branch into others later too, without too much trouble.

Obviously individually based figures can show up in any skirmish games, and FOW figures work great in Crossfire or certain games by yours truly :)

I'd go with FoW if you actually like the WWII time period. I've played 6+ games with ex-warhammer players, and they like them while I think they are shockingly bad for rules that seem to be somewhat popular. Interesting, since they are both warhammer type rulesets (roll a boatload of d6's), but FoW has better rules and better scenarios, plus most of the minis you might want are available in 15mm from multiple manufacturers, even obscure ones. You can't say that about 28mm.

the 28mm avaibility of figures and models increased a lot the last 2 years … the quality is higher for vehicles , and 28mm is easier to paint if you became a bit on the older side :o)

i played FOW, i'm in BA now …

One might add that you could play Bolt Action in 15mm and I am sure some crazy person out there plays Flames of War in 28mm :D

Don't.

Split the difference and buy Battlegroup *** No problem finding anything you need in 1/72 fand a game that rewards real world tactics

I'm not a great fan of either Bolt or Flames but despite the claims re relative knowledge of WWII of the desingers, I find Bolt a much better simulation than Flames (though the bar is not high).

Bolt has some command control, some form of defensive fire, more sensible special rules and a more interative sequence of play.

Both games suffer from wanting to do battalion level battles with appropriate support at far too low a level (because most of the WWII battles we read about are at battalion level not pseudo-skirmish. Both also suffer from using d6 which does not give a large enough range of results of accommodate both modifiers and differences in equipment.

I would in any case recommend Battlegroup in 20mm for 1-1 and Combat Command in 20mm for battalion level (but of course I'm rather biased re the latter).

TomT

No comparison since they are two different levels of combat. In most cases two different casting sizes as well.