"Clueless and overwellmed by the Napoleonic era, Help!" Topic

I just in the last few months got into 15mm scale, and am just rapping up a peter pig late great war German army. So seeing as I will have a larger amount of time to hobby I am looking to get involved in some Napoleonic Austrians, but have absolutely no idea where to start having shopped around and still finding myself overwhelmed by the sheer amount of manufacturers and different unit types.

I haven't found a rule set yet either so treat me like you would a new born. I'd appreciate it on all counts!

it doesnt matter. which ever rules or figures you pick some grognard(tm) Nappie-head will call you out on it.

So you seek the GRAIL?
My suggestion is that you check all the past posts by searching them by "who makes 15mm Austrians" or "best Napoleonic rules" This is a daunting question and you will get many responses I suppose. I would suggest staying with one MFG of figures so they match if you can find one you like, and not base them until you find a rule set you like.
Other than that just do the research and see what strikes you. Also start scanning ebay for good deals on painted figures like line infantry or artillery or cavalry, no one likes painting that stuff. It is a lot easier to remount painted figures than to start from scratch.
Good luck to you sir.

Do you live in the new world or the old? Or somewhere else? That will make a difference in what figures you want to buy. I live in NYC. If I were starting over I'd go with Blue Moon. Their infantry is in attack march pose (muskets held straight up), very nicely sculpted and yet sturdy enough to take the weight of gamers' fat fingers. That said, their line is only Austrian infantry so far with Germans in helmet and shako, Hungarians in shako and German and Hungarian grenadiers.

Other choices on this side of the pond are Battle Honors and Old Glory 15s, both available from 19th Century Miniatures. Top of the line (and most expensive) are AB, available from Eureka. Bayonets and flagpoles can be rather delicate, horses are magnificent.

I chose 1809 for my Austrians because it was their major solo effort against Napoleon and it was a transitional period for uniforms. Some regiments were shifting to shakos (including most Hungarians) while many German regiments still wore the older helmet. I like having both in my army.

What rules? That's a minefield. If there are 20 folks who respond to this they will suggest 25 rules sets.

First, what do other gamers in your area play? That's most important. After that, you have to decide how complex you like your rules. Do you want a definite result after 2 or 3 hours? Or are you prepared to leave the table set up for the next game session?

Then there's what level you want to play. Do you want to lead a couple squads in a skirmish? Do you want to command a brigade of 4 or 5 battalions, a battery of guns and maybe a regiment of cavalry? Or do you want to run a division of several brigades? Perhaps a corps of several division or would you rather command the whole army? Your answers to these questions will narrow down what rules to play.

A last word: whatever you decide on, resist the urge to put as many toys as possible on the table. It makes for great photos but does not always make for great gaming. But you are just starting out, so it will take a while before you can fall prey to that.

Well said Vincent. +100. And let me emphasize:

First, what do other gamers in your area play?

You don't want to build both sides, all by yourself, and wind up only playing with yourself.

Don't be in a rush to buy so quickly Your best route would be to go to some local shows and/or clubs and to see what gamers near you are playing As you said you do not know that much so learn from others who have been there before you.This way you could end up gaming while you build up your own armies

Later on in this thread the various fan boys for various rules and/or scales will all chime in as to how great their particular set up is At this point ignore them all and do your own research.

In the meantime here is a good site that will start you off on your study of Napoleonic history

napoleon-series.org

You have shown your area as New York/Ontario so I hope some of the local clubs will reach out here and give you their contact info

PS Vince types quicker then me and what he says is 100% on

I, also, agree with Vince. Blue Moon minis for me as well.

I am starting over in 15mm, with the Army card Blue money gets me the most bang fdor the buck. It really depends on your budget, both time and money. i am not an exce;llent painter, so most AB figures are wasted on me.

As others said, see what rules are played in your area, and check out a game or 2. or go my route and collect both sides. you may find as i have that if you have the toys others are happy to play, even if they dont want to collect themselves.

Either way have fun

Owen

The advice to do what the locals do trumps all other!

That said, Napoleonic Wargaming is going through a hard plastic revolution in 28mm scale, so for the same or less you can buy beautifully detailed 28mm figures from the likes of Perry, VIctrix and Warlord Games, most of which are quick assembly. Infantry of all natures is amply provided for, and cavalry and artillery is slowly catching up…

Same cost, twice the impact! Just sayin…

Mix AB and Blue Moon … But what size units? You need to make a decision on rules first. Personally I like larger units on the table so I would suggest 20:1 gives a good visual experience. General de Brigade is well regarded by many and gives a proper Napoleonic feel …

I found the easy way was to get an Austrian order of battle, in my case I chose Wagram in 1809. The Vanguard Division 1st and 2nd brigades have a nice mix of different infantry types as well as a couple of hussar regiments and divisional artillery. If you want to explore the different cavalry then the Reservekorps cavalry has the main types represented. All the uniform info' is on the 'net, so no need to buy uniform guides. No axe to grind on rules or figure makers; DBN and 1/72 plastic!

Lots of useful advice already contributed above.

I'd just add a quick tip that after my 25+ years of Napoleonic gaming experience I would suggest that your tastes and interest will change from time to time and no one rules set will ever be perfect for everything so don't feel that at this early stage you have to hold back until you identify "the one true rules set" for your needs, forever.

The concept that follows on then is that your basing system for your whatever figures you choose needs to either (a) allow you to change it from time to time or (b) be a magnetic based system so you can change basing conventions as time passes and your rules interests change.

Welcome to Napoleonics – fabulous period, loads of fun.

If you just have to jump in, Blue Moon figures, base them for Black Powder -it's been solidly hot for awhile and is probably your safest bet at the moment. Old Glory would be my second choice of figures.

If price is an issue (often is) I'd have staff officers and generals AB, maybe cavalry, the rest lesser breeds.

What zippy said, do another 'contained' 19th century war where you can do both sides, other wise you may be heading down a long long endless dark trail of button counters, cloth analyzers bricole braid investigators, might I suggest…….Mexican war? Or austro Franco war of 1850s neat uniforms. Sky blue pants white frock coats for Austrians, French have blue frock coats red Kempis and red trousers. And rifled muskets. And everyone is in lines. Lines and lines and lines. What about war of 1812. Naps is the Hydrocodone of wargaming, myself, I dig crimean war and medievals…..and Vince speaks wisdom, listen to Vince……

Buuuuut, I would suggest black powder rules, and blue moon figures. You don't need millions of troops for a good game on the contrary, parking lot battle are dreadfully boring boring boring

I would suggest that you take your time as others have said. If possible, you many want to attend a couple of conventions and observe some of the games (and their rules) being played to see what you like. Might even want to get in on a couple if you want. You can see a lot of figures at conventions as well. Just my opinion.

Definitely see what your most likely gaming opponents are playing.

Ig you have several local options dabble a bit and see what you like. Napoleonics is well catered for at every scale from 6mm -54mm figures and level of command from 1:1 skirmish games to 1 base is a brigade army level games.

If you can try before you buy by getting in some games do so.

If you are intending to introduce the period to an establish group you might need to supply 2 armies. French will always be needed.

If they already play hail ceaser, bolt action or other warlord games black powder is a good way to go. General de Brigade, is more complicated but at the same level. Lasalle is aimed at the 15mm crowd and is also the same level of command (roughly a division per player). Blucher is the current favour of the month for the 6mm guys. Empire retains a following amongst the old school players.

One thing I have done in various periods: try rules using card board units labeled "infantry" "artillery" etc. If the rules feel good then buy, paint and base figures for those rules. I once tested AWI rules using ACW figures. (runs and hides)

This is better than buying, painting and basing and then discovering the rules have as much soul as a doorknob.

Hey, Xeno

I'm in a similar situation myself. I've been wanting to get into Napoleonics for a few years but it wasn't until a few weeks ago that I decided to take the plunge.

I quickly realized that Nappy wargaming is mined territory to say the least. The opportunities for screwing up completely are legio.

I therefor decided to go with 3mm O8 minis based for Blücher. The reasoning behind being that I would be able to paint two armies in a very short time without spending too much money. If I make a mistake, be it basing, choice of period or painting, it won't be a huge catastrophy, whereas if I'd painted a thousand 15mm minis and then realized I've done it all wrong, I would have to jump from a tall bridge.

I can then, when I'm (hopefully) no longer a complete novice, "graduate" to 6 or 15mm with confidence.

And, of course, as a piece of general advice, no matter what period you're gaming…. choose a set of rules that is independent of basing methods. All else is a sure way to permanent loss of sanity. You WILL end up wanting to play a different rule set at one point. Trust me…. ;)

Welcome to the party pal

On this side of the Atlantic (UK) advice is similar. If I was starting out now I would combine Blue Moon and AB.

And look out for what other people are using, especially for rules, unless you have a private supply of components.

One thing to spend a bit of thought on early is basing. This mainly depends on what your neighbours are using. But available playing space is a factor. Because I often play in restricted space my infantry and cavalry are on 1in squares (6 infantry or 2 cavalry). This is small by current fashions – wider bases and slightly more spaced figures are more popular – but this eats up play space.

Good luck!

Matthew

One further piece of advice. Napoleonic armies are not small. You will be investing considerable resources in getting even one ready to field. Time, money, research, money. Because this is not a small project take your time.

Decide if you are happy with solitaire gaming or want to play with a regular group. If the latter, try a couple of games with loaner armies with potential groups first.

The reason I advocate playing a game or two with your potential regular opponent(s) before you get heavily invested in the project is that it can happen that you find you do not enjoy playing with them. Better to discover this before you have a huge investment in the game.

You may also discover as I did that you have found a first rate group of people to play Napoleonics with and an exciting new period to explore. I just wish I could play with my local club more often.

But, the people you play with can make or break the fun of the hobby. There are games I no longer play because I can't stand playing with the local players, even though I love the games. There are also games I would play, even though I am not interested in the game per se, simply because I enjoy playing with the local players.

Massive armies are seen as ideal but I started with DBN and (of course) DBN armies.
I also decided that I would buy anything that I liked the look of regardless and field them in weird combinations.
Being a solo player helped with this, I'd hate to have to fit in with what other people are doing!!!