"The best pulp hero to wargame is ..?" Topic

Well, we have a poll running about favourite superheroes, which included Doc Savage. I assume there was a comic of him, but I know him from pulp serials.

So, if you play pulp tabletop wargames, who is the best hero to game, which system do you use, and why is your hero the best? The question includes "not XYZ" heroes, so if you game "Doc Ferocious", yeah, that's Doc Savage. Of course, if you have a unique roll-your-own, that's cool, too.

Despite all the Doc Savage references above, my fave to play is not-Sam Spade (I call him Ace Goodknight), I play using my QILS system, and I like him as a tabletop hero because he can solve problems with guile and his fists depending on how things go.

I do like Phil Marlowe myself, who – in my games- has not only walked the mean streets, but also sundry jungle trails and underground caverns, always for a daily charge and a modest expenses invoice.

Worst Pulp era hero (in my gaming history) is Hercule Poirot, whose little grey cells and fastidious manners failed him while driving a flaming truck out of a Louisiana hobo camp infested with zombies.

Tarzan has it all. I'm not talking about the Hollywood version of Tarzan. I mean ERB's combination of Tarzan and Lord Greystoke. That character can do almost anything, from killing Lions with his bare hands to flying an airplane! I originally wrote some extra rules for him using the .45A system. Better than average stealth and movement in jungle settings, and the ability to use animals as allies combined with expert marksmanship and superior hand to hand combat make him a very formidable character. Doc has scientific ability, which Tarzan does not, and The Shadow has detecting ability and massive firepower with twin .45's, which is better than Doc or Tarzan, but neither Doc nor The Shadow has the ability to bring a tribe of apes down on you and then disappear into the jungle while you get your head ripped off. LOL

Tarzan & The Phantom!

I'm just about to start Pulp gaming. Game table just getting finished. Bought Pulp Alley, In Her Majesty's Name, and Savage Worlds Thrilling Tales to try out. So the below are characters I intend to try out:

Jungles fascinate me (see my Jungle Girl Gallery thread on Lead Adventures). So I'm certainly intending to try out not-Tarzan, not-Sheena, and their many jungle relatives and friends. I'm working on an idea for a rogue French Foreign Legion group, complete with a "Red Shadow" type character based on the one at warflag.com , and I want to create an evil bunch of Belgian Force Publique to terrorize the poor natives and wildlife of the Congo. Need to get a not-La to rule over a not-Opar. Will put my Zanzibari figures from Foundry to use as another group. Obviously not-Tarzan and not-Sheena need some baddies to contend with.

Intend to have a Jade del Cameron type character from the Suzanne Arruda mysteries that start with "Mark of the Lion." Will likely use characters from the BBC mystery series "Heat of the Sun" set in Kenya. Will have some L-59 German zeppelin troops drop in out of the sky during WW1. Will also have not-Indiana Jones and not-Laura Croft characters poking about with some of their pals.

I'm also planning to develop a not-Dr. Fu Manchu with a twist (perhaps he's actually the good guy trying to save the world). But China comes after the jungle stuff. And need to wait until after Bob Murch reworks his line of China figures.

Intend to stick with mostly period tech and no super-hero immortals. Sure some of these characters can be almost super-heroes, but not quite for me. Dinosaurs maybe, lost civilizations definitely, no steampunk, and unlikely to see a Martian or Venusian or Pelucidarian invasion of the Congo, but I won't entirely rule out those possibilities.

My favorite pulp hero is Pulp Girl, I play her using our Pulp Alley rules. She's awesome!…. :)

-Mila
Pulp Alley

The Spider would let you go no holds barred in a war game, but I am looking forward to someday having the Continental Op in a Big Knockover game.

+1 abelp01

Despite (or maybe because) moving from 25+mm to 15mm I have several Tarzan/Anti-Tarzan themed teams/companies. Tarzan, Mowgli, Sheena, Jane Badall, Safari Hunters, Beast Master, etc., plus I plan to have a Venusian like setting for Tarzan to move to when civilization gets too constricting/repressive/hypocritical to deal with… No Phantom figures yet.

+2 for The Phantom and The Shadow

But Tarzan who have them beat.

"The Ghost Who Walks"

I concur with Shadow's version of Tarzan (ERB's character as written). I've run a THW rules "Larger than Life" Pulp 1920's scenario with Tarzan & La vs several renegade WWI vets seeking to loot Opar. I spent the necessary effort converting the Reaper "Jungle Lord" to a canonical Tarzan by adding a spear, a coil of rope & a bow w/quiver to the figure.

I'd add John Carter of Mars as an iconic hero for Pulp games. He'd fit seamlessly into ACW & Wild West adventures & with his ability to "spirit travel" + his access to a spacecraft ("Swords of Mars" & "John Carter of Mars") he can show up anywhere in the Solar System. Like Tarzan, he rescues Damsels in Distress & defeats Petty Tyrants without breaking a sweat, while routinely stumbling over Hidden Cities & Lost Races. Carter is gifted with perpetual youth (also like Tarzan) thus he can certainly adventure from 1900 thru the 1940's.

Tarzan (ERB version) is a lot of fun to play -- I'm looking forward to a chance to run the Green Hornet and Kato and also the Jonny Quest gang someday.

If we can include RPG's, I'd say Conan or Elric. Both spawned several great RPG's.

For wargaming, I don't really do pulp much. Judge Dredd?

Conan & campaigns in Hyperborea!

>>If we can include RPG's, I'd say Conan or Elric. Both spawned several great RPG's.<<

mmm…nope. We're talking about miniatures gaming.

>>Conan & campaigns in Hyperborea!<<

Of course, but *only* campaigns in Hyperborea, and I don't think that's what the OP was asking about. He's talking about pulp era gaming in general. Where any character might meet any character.

Colonel Klink, of course!

Truth is, I don't have any pulp 'hero' minis as such – must work on that – I normally go for historical characters – e.g. Gertrude Bell.

I use pulp Alley too. As to what makes my Pulp 'hero' charters the best – nothing much, they rarely end up being 'the best' when in my hands. I'm more of an 'enjoy the epic fail' type of gamer!

>>Conan & campaigns in Hyperborea!<<

Of course, but *only* campaigns in Hyperborea, and I don't think that's what the OP was asking about. He's talking about pulp era gaming in general. Where any character might meet any character.

My Conan leads armies who can meet the Queen of Opal and her armies and Tarzan ~,~

And don't forget that any characters who have found out too much about eldritch horrors can find themselves in a Stygian tomb! Conan/Cthulu cross-over is canon.

miniMo

Canon? I think that's stretching it. I can see where there are some similarities between the monsters in the Conan stories and REH's bogey men, but I don't see a definite link, and Conan doesn't live in the pulp era.

Sorry. I meant HPL's bogey men in the post above.

I forgot to answer the other question, so I use .45A, Astounding Tales, and Pulp Alley.

Well, I haven't played a skirmishy role-playey Pulp game. But if I did, and it was bring any character, then I'ld have to go with G-8.

A Spad XIII can give you a very nice…. edge.

Indiana Jones.

>>Indiana Jones<<

Yeah, Indie's cool! Educated, intelligent, capable *and* smart enough to bring a gun to a sword fight. That was one of my favorite scenes, in any movie, ever! His biggest problem (beside snakes) was letting that little kid tag along. What the hell was his name? Sure shot, hip shot, half shot? Something like that.

Canon? I think that's stretching it. I can see where there are some similarities between the monsters in the Conan stories and REH's bogey men, but I don't see a definite link, and Conan doesn't live in the pulp era.

Actually, Howard and Lovecraft not only both published in the same pulps, but they knew each other through correspondence and traded story ideas that have shown up in their later writings. Brown University's Special Collection library has letters of their writing circle. Apparently, there's also a book collection:

link

which I found trying to Google info on the Brown collection, which is cool since I don't live anywhere near Brown anymore.

Conan's milieu certainly isn't contemporary with Weird Tales in which he was published. Then again, about half of Lovecrafts's stuff takes place between the 1830's and 1910's (ignoring a few temporary flashbacks of a few thousand years here and there).

Ulimately I would say his milieu is no more alien to that of pulp heroes contemporary with the pulp era than Tarzan (who was contemporary) or John Carter (who was't).

>>Actually, Howard and Lovecraft not only both published in the same pulps, but they knew each other through correspondence and traded story ideas that have shown up in their later writings. Brown University's Special Collection library has letters of their writing circle.<<

Sure. Every pulp magazine reader/collector knows that.

No more alien than Tarzan?? Tarzan's adventures take place during the pulp era and even include adventures involving WWI. He could easily meet any number of pulp magazine fictional characters. Especially the globe trotting type, like Doc Savage. Conan is all swords and sorcery during a mythical era in mythical lands. I'm not following you here.

Sure. Every pulp magazine reader/collector knows that.

Then why did you say you didn't see a definite link.

No more alien than Tarzan?? Tarzan's adventures take place during the pulp era and even include adventures involving WWI.

Yes, there are touchpoints with contemporaries of the pulp era, but by and large they are set in a fictitious and fantasy "African" jungle (which has swords and magic) as well as lost worlds, valleys, cities, etc. Part of the point of Jane et al, is to act as a foil and demonstrate how alien that world is to them.

While Conan is "swords and sorcery", it isn't all D&D fireballs flinging left and right. I'm sure there was an example of tactical use of magic in Conan, but I can't think of it without looking it up, as opposed to talking apes and shrink rays in Tarzan. Conan is really more like a gangster anti-hero than the current idea of a fantasy barbarian.

Um, actually, there is a Tarzan book set in WW2…

Biggles.

Adventurous childhood in Colonial India…

Most famously, a stone killer in a Sopwith Camel during WWI…

Then a no-job-too-dangerous charter pilot between the wars (including some ventures into fantastical territory with hidden temples, giant squids etc)…

Squadron leader (and occasional secret agent) in WWII…

And a dogged crime-fighter in the post war "Special Air Police" stories.

And as the series develops, he accrues a trusty team of sidekicks: Algy, (the 'right hand man') Ginger, (the 'kid') and the Right Hon. Bertie Lissie (the upper-class twit.)

90-odd books for inspiration – check out the cover gallery: biggles.info

etotheipi

There is no definite link *in the stories*. Traded story ideas? I'm not sure that's true the way you worded it. That they *Discussed* story ideas is very likely, but that doesn't establish any link in the stories themselves.

>>>Yes, there are touchpoints with contemporaries of the pulp era, but by and large they are set in a fictitious and fantasy "African" jungle (which has swords and magic) as well as lost worlds, valleys, cities, etc. Part of the point of Jane et al, is to act as a foil and demonstrate how alien that world is to them.<<<

I don't recall any "magic" in any of the ERB Tarzan stories. Lost civilizations with strange inhabitants…sure. But no sorcery, and I don't see why Doc Savage couldn't pop right into a Tarzan story, as part of *his* bag was lost civilizations. In fact, the very first pulp magazine story was "The Man of Bronze", which was…guess what?…a lost civilization story. :-) I could also see REH's "El Borak" meeting Tarzan. Not to mention ERB's pulp era hero David Innes, who Tarzan met "At the Earth's Core". And why not ERB's Billy Byrne aka "The Mucker", who was shipwrecked in a far east jungle and seemed to do fine in that environment. I could go on, but I think you get my point.

>>>Conan is really more like a gangster anti-hero than the current idea of a fantasy barbarian.<<<

I agree with you that Conan is an "anti-hero". In fact, REH created at least one more swords and sorcery anti-hero. The outlaw Black Turlogh O'Brien. You can barely tell the difference between the two.

I have no idea what the current idea of a fantasy barbarian is.

I'm good with Sasquatch. Had him in one game allied with some White Russians inside a tunneler-borer (convented toy). Had to roll a die to see how many turns the Russians could stand the smell and surface teh tunneler on an island. Sasquatch won the game by leaping to snag the feet of the death ray inventor who was being spirited away across a zip line from a keep heading for a massif. Both fell into a canal. And lived. game over.

There is no definite link *in the stories*. Traded story ideas? I'm not sure that's true the way you worded it. That they *Discussed* story ideas is very likely, but that doesn't establish any link in the stories themselves.

I hate to invoke this, however the Lovecraft circle did trade ideas, forward draft manuscripts, accept and reject the comments of others, and discuss such accpetances and rejections at length. :) Names, events, descriptions, and underlying mythos elements were freely traded back and forth.

The reason I hate to invoke it is unless you have been to Brown and read the letters, you can't argue that for or against (unless the above linked book has that in it; I will know in a couple days).

I don't recall any "magic" in any of the ERB Tarzan stories.

Plenty of witch doctors, curses (with effects in the stories), eternal youth from drinking "special" water. I have to say I interpret those things differently and say they are similar.

Lost civilizations with strange inhabitants…

Like talking apes and "ant-men". I would put those in the same category of fantastical creature as many of Conan's monsters, most of which weren't explicitly magical either.

I could go on, but I think you get my point.

I agree with the point, but I would also say that scientific, magical, and eldrich-beyond-comprehension time-travel was stock in trade for many of the pulp heroes, et al. And necessary for at least John Carter, which would make Conan a possible in the list of never-happened-but-would-be-plausible run-ins.

I didn't say that somehow Tarzan was different than the other pulps. I said the milieu of Conan is no more different than that of Tarzan.

I have no idea what the current idea of a fantasy barbarian is.

I did give the example of D&D-like tactical-magic as the current stock-in-trade for S&S. The magic in Conan is much more like the magic in Trazan and the other pulps (curses, long time lead, indirect effects, applied over long distances) rather than videogame fireball slinging.

Here's the list so far (with some not necessarily what we would all call "heroes", but, hey, your hero is your hero! :) ):

Doc Savage
Sam Spade
Phil Marlowe
Hercule Poirot
Tarzan
The Shadow
The Phantom
Sheena
Red Shadow
La of Opar
Colonial Brits
Jade del Cameron
Indiana Jones
Laura Croft
Dr. Fumanchu
Pulp Girl
The Spider
Jane Goodall
Safari Team
Beast Master
Mowgli
John Carter
Green Hornet/Kato
Elric
Johnny Quest
Judge Dredd
Conan
Eldrich Investigators
Spad XIII
Biggles
Sasquatch

Good list of well-known and less-so characters. I also like the inclusion of "groups" of stock pulp people like safari expiditions and colonial forces; I never thought that way. Any others?

>>I hate to invoke this, however the Lovecraft circle did trade ideas, forward draft manuscripts, accept and reject the comments of others, and discuss such accpetances and rejections at length. :) Names, events, descriptions, and underlying mythos elements were freely traded back and forth.<<

Invoke anything you like. We're having a discussion and exchanging ideas. If you have information that I don't have I welcome it. :-)

Now, i'm sure that everything that you said is true, *except* that I don't see anything *in the stories* that would indicate that HPL said something to REH like "Hey Bob. I have a terrific idea for ya. You mention "elder gods" in one of your stories and everyone will know that those elder gods are the *same* elder gods as the ones in my stories. Can't miss Bob, 'cause, since we're in the same magazine, everyone who reads my stories certainly reads yours as well and will make the obvious connection and say "Holy Smokes. One of these days Cthulhu's gonna wake up and drive Conan nuts". By the way, sorry my idea about "Conan and the Giant Penguins of Lemuria" didn't go over too well. BTW, that idea of yours where Santa Clause was really a barbarian isn't really my ball of wax, so I kicked it over to Seabury and I think he's gonna run with it. The working title is "Roads", but I don't know if he'll keep that. After all, what the heck do roads have to do with Santa Clause. Ha Ha! He drives a sleigh for Pete's sake".

Sorry about the above Eto. Too much coffee and time on my hands. (-:

Sorry about the above Eto. Too much coffee and time on my hands.

Dont' be sorry. I am also enjoying the discussion.

You are right that I had never read any back-and-forth of the type you cite. What I have seen (or at least, the way I remember it) was more like "your horror would be more effective if you presented it with these characteristics that I use …" and "the universe is a cold, unforgiving place and we are just specks … I think your dark elements need to reflect that more."

That's the type of direct link I was talking about. The authors discussed and agreed upon (or explicitly didn't) the nature, characteristics, and presentation of their supernatural threats. (For me supernatural does not equal magic, it simply means things beyond our common experience that violate our understanding of the universe. Some supernatural things are, over time, raionalized and explained. Others are not.)

While there was a (tiny) bit of proper name sharing and direct use of other authors' words from advice on manuscripts, I don't think that is a major element of the exchange. I'm farily certain all of the writers in the circle used some of the others' words when offered. I would probably have to reread everything to see if there was any specific ERB Conan (as opposed to other writing)-Lovecraft name sharing.

In general, I took Lovecraft's discussions about his and others' literature to be against systematization of the mythos. I think part of his concept of things being unassprechen was that they couldn't be systematized. Though August Derleth (and, 30+ years later, the D&D "Let's stat out all the mosters!" approach) was decidedly 180 out from this.

Also, in my experience, there is no such thing as too much coffee.

Spad XIII

Actually the entry is for G-8, not the SPAD XIII which is just his ride.
link

eto

I mentioned "Roads" and "Seabury" in my last post. I assume that you knew that I was referring to Seabury Quinn, who was a contemporary of REH and HPL, and at least a couple of Weird Tales featured stories by all three authors at once! Anyway, if you haven't read "Roads" you should try to find a copy. The story is about a Nordic gladiator, the Nativity, and who the Nordic gladiator eventually becomes. I read it at least 40 years ago in a collection of Weird Tales stories titled "Worlds of Weird" and it's been one of my favorite stories in the fantasy genre as it combines legend, myth and religion in a highly imaginative way. I haven't seen a copy of "Worlds of Weird" for many years, and the original pulp magazine will cost a small fortune, but it might be reprinted somewhere else. If you haven't read it, it's worth searching for.

johnny quest along with race bannen for sure, but my favorite would be simon templar the saint. suave, smart, good in a fight and a touch of sarcasm – what's not to like. for a historical type – frank "pistol pete" eaton en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Eaton. for a comic book one – pandora driver. both thanks to dave at pulp alley.

They aren't pulp heroes per se, but someone has to wear the black hat. My Mi-go leader (the one extracting the brain) is totally committed to furthering the forces of good, even if it means messing about with human dreck.

I'm going to throw another character into the pot; Leslie Charteris' Simon Templar, AKA The Saint. Maybe best known in Britain, but his pulp magazine lasted into the 60's in the US.