"Relentless Terror: The Everyday Horrors of the ... " Topic
14 Posts
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Tango01 | 01 Jul 2015 10:45 p.m. PST |
…Islamic State. "In late June, images made their way around the world of four men as they were locked in a car and killed with a rocket-propelled grenade. They showed seven men, chained together with explosive necklaces, as they were blown up. And they provided evidence that five men had been locked in a metal cage and lowered into the water to drown. As we learned last week, 16 men in total were murdered in these brutal ways. We know this because the executioners with the group calling itself "Islamic State" wanted to film their victims as they were dying. The films, carefully staged and distributed using all modern channels, seem to be coming directly from hell. The men who see themselves as the new caliphs are performing an unparalleled dance of death, complete with the kinds of horrors once depicted by painter Hieronymus Bosch -- only these killers and executioners are anything but fiction. In Syria and along the Tigris and Euphrates Rivers in Iraq today, where human civilization once began, it is not some nightmarish fictional characters at work, but real players in contemporary history with a megalomaniacal agenda. And instead of covering up their murders, they are doing the opposite -- inviting the rest of the world to look on, proud of a brutality that knows no bounds and is both part of their military strategy and an instrument of oppression. The Islamic State is both fact and fiction at the same time. It has clearly created a propaganda bubble, but it also represents a new social order in places where it has come into power. The "caliphate" was proclaimed about a year ago, and the older group ISIS (Islamic State in Iraq and Syria) has become IS, often referred to as Da'ish in the Arab world. But all of these names refer to the same thing: a militant movement with its origins partly in the Iraqi prison camps run by the Americans, which grew into al-Qaida in Iraq and now, as IS, is claiming territory for a new state, territory captured by former top figures in the regime of dictator Saddam Hussein…" From here link Hell in earth… literally. Amicalement Armand |
John Treadaway | 02 Jul 2015 8:37 a.m. PST |
I think I'm right in saying that Hitler had the deaths of the bomb plotters who tried to kill him filmed so that he could watch them strangled with piano wire. ISIS going to the trouble of installing underwater cameras to film the deaths of those men in the metal cage (never mind the other deaths) is just one more reason, I believe, to compare them to the… am I allowed to use the (other) 'N' word without being dawghoused? Yes, ok then: the Nazis. I can't see any other way of describing them, I'm afraid. All I would say is that – after WW2 – there was a lot of hand wringing and people looking askance at others' timing and – perhaps – even their agendas over the way some aspects of that war were conducted, especially with regard to the question "why wasn't more done to stop Nazi Death camps?" Why didn't we bomb them, even though, as has been said by historians, we would have certainly killed inmates (who were almost certainly going to die anyway), the argument goes (by some – including many surviving inmates) that it would probably have been the 'right' thing to do. But we didn't do it. Until it was too late. It seems – as ever – that the only lesson that we learn from history is… well, you don't need me to finish that one, do ya? WW2 – as we all know – started with a fascist regime, which the west had largely been ignoring for years, invading other countries and killing folks including – as it was discovered – more than just 'combatants'. And it only ended, of course, after a massive investment of both the lives of people and a vast amount of money and all that went with it: it required the whole 'free world' to gang up and destroy a monster, putting aside their own differences and squabbles until afterwards. On the home front, it also involved local populations who were considered 'suspicious' (in the UK those of Italian and German descent, for example) spending time under lock and key on (in the UK's case) the Isle of Man. It also involved known sympathisers in the British government doing time at "His Majesties' Pleasure". And, of course, it meant spies and saboteurs and other enemy combatants not in uniform were simply executed. Yep: I know you all know this. I'm just detailing it because I suspect that this current 'situation' won't be solved by any other methods than those we began 76 years ago, even if it destroys (perhaps temporarily) the very pleasant peacetime society, full of freedoms and leisure, that we are trying to protect. I applaud the fact that the BBC website (a go to for me) hasn't even mentioned this latest round of killings: starving these animals of the oxygen of publicity is an idea – and a good one. But, with social media being what it is, that may be a false premise. As a world, I believe we need to do something about this and it wont be easy, cheap or rewarding. But I think we need to do it. If I'm now on my way to the Dawghouse, give me a chance to pack a few things, will you? (something to read, some biscuits etc). John Treadaway |
Tango01 | 02 Jul 2015 10:26 a.m. PST |
I would visit you my friend!. (smile) Amicalement Armand |
tuscaloosa | 02 Jul 2015 12:25 p.m. PST |
"As a world, I believe we need to do something about this and it wont be easy, cheap or rewarding. But I think we need to do it." I agree with many of your points, but the bottom line for me (and I suspect, many others who served in Iraq) is that I am sick and tired of the MidEast, and I see no point in getting involved. Especially not without any kind of coherent strategy, which has been completely lacking in the past couple administrations. "I'm just detailing it because I suspect that this current 'situation' won't be solved by any other methods than those we began 76 years ago, even if it destroys (perhaps temporarily) the very pleasant peacetime society, full of freedoms and leisure, that we are trying to protect." The pendulum has already swung in the other direction. All the hullabaloo about living in a police state means that the public (in the U.S. and in W Europe) is not going to put up with anything they remotely suspect is limiting their "rights". Oh well. |
John Treadaway | 02 Jul 2015 2:32 p.m. PST |
Tuscaloosa: sadly I can't disagree with a single point you've made. It's probably worth reminding ourselves that the now oft derided Chamberlain was in a similar position twenty years after the most appalling pointless war with a population firmly against involvement in another war in countries most of the UK were scarcely aware of and the US determined not to – yet again – get dragged into another foreign war either. Churchill – in hindsight – was seen as very different, of course, to how he was seen in 1940. I wonder if the world is waiting for another Winnie? Or yet another Pearl Harbour (with a clearer, more definable enemy that 9-11). John T |
Mitochondria | 02 Jul 2015 8:26 p.m. PST |
The mideast will be burning soon. I think Egypt is having troubles now with ISIS. Let them hash it out until there is one clear winner. It might take years, but Israel could use with a moment to take a breather. They are a much more immediate threat to Russia, Europe, and China. Let them get their hands dirty in a regional conflict. |
Mako11 | 03 Jul 2015 1:56 a.m. PST |
"All the hullabaloo about living in a police state means that the public (in the U.S. and in W Europe) is not going to put up with anything they remotely suspect is limiting their "rights".". I'd like to think that, but given that people in Oregon are voluntarily agreeing to having a GPS system installed in their vehicles in order to track and tax them for every mile they drive, and/or that voluntarily give away personal info on social media sites, it appears the above may be incorrect. Supposedly, the company getting the mileage and GPS location data will keep it for eternity. I agree with much of the above. Supposedly, ISIS is now threatening to take over in Gaza from Hamas, whose performance there they are unhappy with. We defeated both Germany, Italy, and Japan, each of which was far more powerful than ISIS back in the day, in just a few years. A shame we can't defeat a sad rabble of jihadis, with our modern technology. However, you have to first acknowledge who the real enemy is, have people who will demonstrate the will to fight to others, convince your citizens the fight is important, and then have the proper leadership to get it done. |
Jemima Fawr | 03 Jul 2015 2:27 a.m. PST |
"the kinds of horrors once depicted by painter Hieronymus Bosch" Naked people having giant raspberries shoved up their bums and being eaten by giant baby birds?! The humanity… The IRA also tried that 'drowning in a cage' method, but found that the water drained out faster than they could fill it with water. It took true evil to perfect that method. |
John Treadaway | 03 Jul 2015 2:32 a.m. PST |
However, you have to first acknowledge who the real enemy is, have people who will demonstrate the will to fight to others, convince your citizens the fight is important, and then have the proper leadership to get it done. Agreed. |
Coelacanth1938 | 03 Jul 2015 3:29 a.m. PST |
I consider myself to be a liberal and loving individual. Having said that, I honesty believe our only option in dealing with these animals is to hunt down and euthanize every single one of them. |
Tango01 | 03 Jul 2015 10:52 a.m. PST |
Totally agree with you! Amicalement Armand |
Jemima Fawr | 04 Jul 2015 2:53 a.m. PST |
You agree with me about Hieronymus Bosch? :) |
tuscaloosa | 04 Jul 2015 12:46 p.m. PST |
"A shame we can't defeat a sad rabble of jihadis, with our modern technology" Ten+ years in Iraq, the world's hyperpower, spending half the world's military budget, still couldn't keep a ten kilometer highway from Baghdad Airport to the Green Zone free of IEDs. |
Coelacanth1938 | 06 Jul 2015 10:47 p.m. PST |
I'm hoping that DARPA opens up its toy box and unleashes robotic horrors on this crowd. |
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