Oh Bugger | 25 Jun 2015 4:22 a.m. PST |
We read of detached musketeers in accounts of battles. Was there a notional number of how many musketeers it was advisable to detach from their parent formation? |
MajorB | 25 Jun 2015 5:17 a.m. PST |
As many as needed to do the job they were detached for. |
Oh Bugger | 25 Jun 2015 5:25 a.m. PST |
But presumaby you would not detach all of your musketeers? |
MajorB | 25 Jun 2015 5:37 a.m. PST |
But presumaby you would not detach all of your musketeers? Depends what they were required to do. My understanding is that "Commanded Muskets" were not necessarily detached from a pike and shot unit, but could be a unit consisting solely of muskets for such purposes. The artillery Train Guard for example, were equipped woth firelocks and so were clearly not detached from a parent unit. The firelocks were better than muskets in proximity to the artillery because of the danger from the musketeers' lighted match coming anywhere near the gunpowder. |
Oh Bugger | 25 Jun 2015 6:13 a.m. PST |
Leaving the firelocks aside for the moment. Have we any examples of troops armed with musket only in the ECW that were not detached from a mixed armed unit? |
GurKhan | 25 Jun 2015 6:31 a.m. PST |
Sir Thomas Fairfax highlights the dangers of lacking pike, he lost 1,000 men killed and captured by Goring's 500 cavalry at the Battle of Seacroft Moor in 1643 because "his regulars were all musketeers". From link – the bit in quotes is from Stuart Reid's "All the King's Armies". Reid's "Musketeers in the Civil Wars" (Partizan Press 1984) discusses the Royalist use of all-musket regiments, at first garrison units but occasional regiments in the field as well, notably the one that Sir Robert Byron was ordered to form in 1643. |
Oh Bugger | 25 Jun 2015 7:17 a.m. PST |
Great link and straight to favourites for a considered read. Thank you. |
huevans011 | 25 Jun 2015 7:50 a.m. PST |
Depends on situation and doctrine. For instance, the Spanish had small sub units of arquebusiers termend "guarniciones / garrisons" which were always posted with the pike to protect them. The remainder of the firepower guys were placed in "mangas / sleeves" and could remain with the pikes or be moved around independently. At Nordlingen, some of the Spanish tercios were placed in reserve and their mangas were moved forward independently to provide firepower support for the front-line pike and shotte units holding the redoubts on the Albruch. |
Griefbringer | 25 Jun 2015 11:24 a.m. PST |
IIRC in TYW Swedish armies of Gustav Adolf II, the doctrine was for up to one third of the musketeers in infantry companies to be detached as commanded shot on the battlefield. The infantry companies were officially organised into six "corporalships", three of pikemen and three of musketeers, with a corporalship of musketeers consisting of 24 musketeers and a corporal. Before action, individual corporalships from several companies could be pooled together under command of an officer, likely with an accompanying musician to transmit orders. One way to use them was to place them in small units between cavalry formations to provide those with more firepower. Musketeers could then soften the enemy (cavalry or infantry) before the accompanying cavalry would launch their attack. No doubt Daniel S will be able to provide some further insights. |
Mako11 | 25 Jun 2015 12:00 p.m. PST |
Based upon the movies I've seen, 3, or 4, with perhaps an attractive female, or two, as a sidekick, or someone to be rescued. |
Daniel S | 25 Jun 2015 12:11 p.m. PST |
The corporalship that was detached to act as commanded shot was led by the fourier & the "rüstmeister" in addition to the corporal. No drums were assigned as these all went to either the divisions of pikmen or the platoons of musketeers. At brigade level the commanded shot was led by the senior regimental quartermaster. Because of the surplus of musketeers that was usually present in the Swedish army the musketeer detachments that supported the cavalry wings and/or acted as a advance guard were usually not drawn from the "commanded musketeers" of each brigade but rather was taken from all-musketeer regiments or pike&shot regiments with a large surplus of shot. As a result we often find those detachments led by fairly senior regimental officers including the occasional colonel and lieutenant-colonel and they at times accompanied by drummers as well. (Colours would not be carried by the musketeers detachments but were either left in camp under guard or sent with the regimental pikemen to take up position as part of a brigade.) The use of these "regular" musketeers also allowed the Swedes to make full use of the platoon organisation used by musketeers fighting in the brigades. One platoon was two corporalships of musketeers and the platoon was led by a lieutenant and a sergeant and usually had a drummer attached. Two platoons formed a "division" which was led by the senior lieutenant. The platoon organisation proved very flexible and allowed the Swedes to swiftly combine the spread out platoons into larger formation when needed. The commanded musketeers that remained with the brigade did a variety of duties. They could reinforce the firing line, replace losses, bring up new powder and shot and were also used to assists the regimental cannon attached to the brigade. As temporary artillerymen they help move the cannon, carried munitions and other equipment and did some of the basic gunnery tasks under the watchfull eyes of the two regular gunners. |
Daniel S | 25 Jun 2015 12:12 p.m. PST |
*Bump* The "lock file error" which prevents the message counter to update seems to be very active at the moment. |
MajorB | 25 Jun 2015 12:28 p.m. PST |
I am slightly confused as to which war we are talking about. ECW or TYW? |
Phillius | 25 Jun 2015 12:35 p.m. PST |
I suspect the detail is pretty much the same, be it TYW or ECW. There are plenty of examples of all musketeer units in the ECW on both sides. More thorough souls than I will probably provide links. Most famously the second lines of the Spanish/Allied army at Rocroi, were primarily comprised of German garrison troops who were nearly all musketeers. The lack of pikes is given as the main reason Conde was able to ride them down so easily with his cavalry. |
huevans011 | 25 Jun 2015 4:43 p.m. PST |
@ Phillius: Re Rocroi: Thanks, I hadn't realized that. |
OldGlory Andy | 30 Jun 2015 9:49 a.m. PST |
Reid- Gunpowder triumphant- highlight the role of the musketeer. Fairfax' northern army was slightly odd in have almostno pikemen for most of its existance. Most other armies RAISED the regiments as normal Pike/shot formations though the shot could be detached in some cases for a considerable time- the Bristol foot used in the siege of Gloucester by the royalists being an example- these were a battalion of 500 shot detached from the garrison of Bristol . Royalist units were frequently fragmented. Garrison foot could also be laregly musketeeers although you do find references to foot in garrisons having Brown Bills as well. |