"My current SPOILER theory about Game of Thrones" Topic

There are those who say that Jon warged into Ghost in his Ides of March finale.

It occurred to me that since Bran could warg into Summer and Hodor (Hodor!) at will, that Jon wargs into Wun Wun the giant.
STOMP STOMP STOMP

If a new election is held, Ser Alliser puts his name forward. The last Snow loyalist left at the Wall snarls "I would rather gut myself than have a bloody traitor who killed the last Lord Commander take that honor!" To his dismay, Dolorous Edd Tollett is suddenly elected Lord Commander by acclamation. Ser Alliser storms out of the Hall and is immediately stomped on by Wun Wun.
Ditto Bowen Marsh and Olly.

Edd lights Jon's funeral pyre, and then…

Aunt Dany arrives, and her Dothraki horde freeze to death. Topless horse archers do not fare well at the wall.

Uncle Benjen? What are you doing here? What lovely blue eyes you have, Uncle Ben!
STOMP STOMP STOMP
Now we know that four things can kill White Walkers, dragon glass, dragon steel, dragons and getting stomped on.

I think it is like Blackadder where they kill of the entire cast every year

I've been meaning to put out my GoT theory on a new thread but this is as good a thread as any to post. Mind you, I am only in the middle of season two but I've pretty much figured out Martin's method.

If you are evil and a bad-ass, you will have longevity in the show.

If you are good and bad-ass, your days are sadly numbered.

If you are good but an underdog, you will go far.

Case in point. Ned and Rob Stark both met untimely ends just as things got going. Tywin still alive.

Tyrion, the underdog and basically good, (compasionate anyway) is still alive.

Jon Snow…dead….but he went far indeed.

My money has been on Danyerius or Jon Snow from the beginning. From the couple of spoilers, I seem to have been correct.

The show is basically "Medieval Lost." Figure out the formula and you won't be far off the mark.

I have no doubt that the bad guys will meet their demise in season 6. One after another. Arya will likely off them one at a time or at least be nearby.

As for Jon. He's dead. D.E.D DEAD! If you somehow think George is messing with you, think about dear old papa Ned.

In a couple of months, I'll be all caught up and may revise my prediction based on what I've seen.

I think Martin is largely kicking his audience for the fun of it. At this point, I don't think any of this has anything to do with plot or story; I think it has to do with destroying fantasy tropes and attacking the fascination with medieval times. It's "Oh, you want to live in a fantasy medieval world, do you? Well this what such a world would really be like: nasty, brutal and mostly horrific, with little if anything to redeem it. You like this guy? You think he's a hero? Well, his world will kill him for it. You like this girl? You think she's innocent and kind and lovely? Well, her world is going to rape her for it. You think this child is young and sweet? Well, his world is going to bash his brains out against a wall. Ha ha ha."
It's realistic, I suppose, but frankly I got a little sick of it a long time ago.
So, yeah, Jon is dead. Dead, dead, dead. I'm not even certain Martin *has* a resolution in sight, aside from the resolution of the Wars of the Roses, which is that somebody not really from any initial major faction winds up on the throne after everyone else is dead. Woohoo.
Enjoy your "entertainment," folks, 'cause it's just gonna get worse.

I have to agree, Jon is, IMO, D-E-A-D dead. And Melisandre hasn't shown that she has the chops to raise him from the dead. Now maybe, just maybe, he comes back as one of the others, and perhaps he and Dany have an epic battle at the end. But heroic, honorable Jon Snow is ovuh. And the actor who portrays him has said that his role in the series is finished, so I think that the "epic battle" between Dany and Jon, the WW vs the Dragons, this Sunday only, SUNDAY SUNDAY SUNDAY! Come to the Wall, one time only, this time it's for Westeros! Ain't gonna happen. Just my opinion of course, I've been wrong before.

I think Martin is largely kicking his audience for the fun of it.

What was your first clue? Was it his annoying fat man cackle?

"You like this cute tomboy little girl? Well, let's turn her into a revenge seeking psychopath who tortures the number one on her list to death."

Lets remember all these theories when Season 6 or the next book comes out. I want to see how many people and on which side were way off base.

The red witch will try and raise Jon the next morning (sunup) just as he turns into a walker (overnight conversion). Jon will awake "in-between" the two, hence fire and ice.

Of course I know nothing about the background stuff, just sounds about right for a TV show.

BTW, I agree with Parzival's assessment of the show. It is too dark and we are running short (VERY short) of characters with redeeming qualities.

Like I said, I am at the mid point of season 2. I am finding it increasingly harder to watch with each episode. I have no idea how someone could binge a whole season and not have the urge to throw themselves from the tallest building.

But then, like I said, it's Medieval Lost. Even that jumped the shark at some point and ended with a bad ending. Maybe it's the moments of porn injected into the show that keeps the viewership up. Maybe it's the Medieval setting and the extreme violence. I'll get through it eventually. Just because. Soap opera I say…mostly for dudes!

Turns out it is all just poor Ned Starks dying vision. Last episode will end with his head staring up at the sky.

Jon wargs into Ser Alliser. Now that would be interesting.

I have to agree, Jon is, IMO, D-E-A-D dead. And Melisandre hasn't shown that she has the chops to raise him from the dead.

Her showing up just in time would otherwise be a ridiculous coincidence. And I don't think its a red herring. They basically airlifted her out of Little Bighorn in a VToL Concorde jet build just for the occasion.
Thoros cast his 25th level spell several times, even though he couldn't 'turn' a zombie kitten. I still say the "crisis of faith" angle is what makes it work.

John not being just "mostly dead" drives a third of the story, up and running from S1/Ep1, off a cliff. There are no character models to pass the mantle off to. Martin might have done it, but HBO won't. Besides, they've slaughtered enough Girl Eye Candy, I don't think they're stupid enough to push their luck further. And they came into this knowing what criticisms hounded the original source material.

HBO won't. Besides, they've slaughtered enough Girl Eye Candy, I don't think they're stupid enough to push their luck further

I think you underestimate the stupidity of Hollywood studio executives,* or at least overestimate their sense of propriety.

*Though maybe not. Audiences will watch almost anything, and studio executives are more than happy to cash the checks that prove it.

SG1 medics show up and stabilise himfor transport back to Earth where he is debriefed. His report is so horrendous the Stargate program gets the go ahead for Operation Rewrite, the full invasion and regime change of Arrakis..errr, Westeros.

I know its the internet where opinion always trumps fact but still: audiances won't watch anything – look at the number of canceled shows each year. In general TV quality has steadily improved over the last decade with GOT a good example of much more interesting (and demanding) TV fair – that it could have been much better had it stuck closer to the source material is frustrating but doesn't negate the main point.

Theories abound where the Ice and Fire saga is heading and they are almost always proved wrong. To make matters worse D&D seem content to allow physical space and character logic to bend and twist as they get on and off track with the source material. The books are far more consistent regarding both so a bit easier to predict.

My guess: Jon will resurrect in some manner, Dany will turn the Dothraki to her side, Sansa will get re-directed back to the Eyrie (where she is in the books) and raise an army from the Eyrie combined with disgruntled Northern lords to retake Winterfell. The Others + Wights will flood over the wall setting off big battles and a new siege of Winterfell.

But I'm probably wrong. And we'll find out by the end of winter 2015/16 when the Winds of Winter appears.

An easier prediction: Winds will top the best seller list and GOT will continue to break all HBO ratings records.

TomT

I think that there are very good – indeed you could say critical – plot reasons for Jon to be alive or not dead or…something. But those very reasons are the very same reasons that GRRM will kill him off with no saving throw.

One obvious thing is that the Nights Watch is not bad at killing Wildlings, ideally from a distance but are an utter failure at actually "protecting the realms of men". I'd really like to see the next Lord Commander execute Thorne and Olly and then ask for one man in ten to volunteer to execute nine of his comrades. I'd then execute those volunteers. You thought I was a liberal huh?

The only thing that makes me think that Jon isn't dead is the behaviour of Ghost when Sam was getting worked over. Why did he intervene? He's not Sams companion? Did he develop a sense of vulpine justice? Or was he being warged? That said the warging idea isn't my favourite solution. I do think the Melisandre option makes most sense…Jons laid out on his bier, they apply the torch after lying through their mutinous teeth…..and out of the flames emerges Jon but with shorter hair so Harrington can get his hair cut and help bluff us poor suckers.

On the whole though I agree, Jon Snow, RIP, KIA by a bunch of mutinous cretins who deserve decimation on a good day – or to be marched north of the wall and left there.

Liberals can be more bloodthirsty than conservatives.

Are you endorsing mutiny, Winston? I have a list……

nd out of the flames emerges Jon but with shorter hair so Harrington can get his hair cut…

Perish the thought! The backlash would tremendous- it would be the Felicity Debacle ten times over!

Watched the first two seasons, bought the 3rd, still in its shrink wrap. Cannot find enough reasons to want to be depressed watching it.

Stopped reading the books after one particularly ugly scene.

Sorry, I don't always have to have the "good" guy win, but I'd at least like to have a "good" guy to root for and follow.

Dan

I agree, I don't understand why anyone wants to even watch the series let alone read the books!

Ummmmm…..
Because we like them?

How about:

Complex multi-layered characters.
Interesting fully realized world.
Good use of medieval history both as to setting and events.
Plot twists, new takes on classic material that can suprise, delight and agravate all at the same time.
Immersive you are there writing style told from various POVs.
Mentally challenging moral choices for the characters (what would I do if faced with this situation?)
Great campaign setting for a wargame.

Same reason people read Dickens and Shakesphere I suspect.

TomT

Tom,
I agree with your comments. Those are the good things. It's just – for example – Shireen? Theon? Sansa? I realise that young children are and been murdered, men tortured and emasculated and women raped and that to deny it happens is somewhat blinkered but it's not why I read or watch fantasy literature. I realise too that such things occur in Shakespeare but I go back to this – 9 people I know in work have watched the series to date and all have them have expressed revulsion at the above episodes. That's a pretty solid return on an admittably small sample.

That's said…..yes, all, most will return for the next series. More what that says about us I suppose.

GoT= Dickens or Shakespeare???? In 25 years people will wonder what all the fuss was about while people will still be studying Dickens and Shakespeare. As for me count me as one who has given his last penny to GRRM and D&D (remember when D&D meant Dungeons and Dragons in the TMP universe?)

Theory: Winter Comes. Everyone Dies. Glaciation. Dead Guys Win. End of Story.

Goonfighter:

Please bear in mind that my comments pertain to the book serias Song of Ice and Fire not the HBO version (GOT).

Shireen is very much alive in the books. Theon's torture is not explicilty exploited as it is in the HBO version, Sansa is not at Winterfell not married and abused by Ramasy. He does abuse another character who is rescued by Theon and some Windlings who infiltrate Winterfell.

Martin often discusses the issue of violance/war/abuse in a fantasy setting. His view is that we should not candy coat war even in a fantasy setting. As Robert E. Lee said: "Its good that war is so terrible least we grow to fond of it."

He does not write escapist (or as he calls it "comfort") literature. He challenges readers though he's also a romantic who often uses classic fantasy tropes in a new way (Theon a fallen gollum/prince rescues a princess though we as the reader know she's a fake "Stark princess" – but still as a human being worth rescuing. That's Martin.)

I suspect in 25 years people will still be ready Martin (or at least complaining abut when the next book is coming out…)

TomT