"Robotech Tactics with GHQ?" Topic

Here's something interesting coming from Palladium (and my apologies if this has been posted somewhere else):

The first six Earth Defenders Blister Packs:

Apache Combat Helicopter (1) – Includes flight stand, base and stat card; 1/285th scale (6mm). $10.00 USD plus shipping.

A-10 Warthog Jet (1) with big gun for ground attack, plus flight stand, base and stat card; 1/285th scale (6mm). $10.00 USD plus shipping.

T-55MV Tanks (4 per pack), plus 2 stat cards and four bases; 1/285th scale (6mm). $10.00 USD plus shipping.

Cougar 6x6 APCs (4 per pack), plus 2 stat cards and four bases; 1/285th scale (6mm). $10.00 USD plus shipping.

Convoy Trucks (4 per pack), plus 2 stat cards and four bases; 1/285th scale (6mm). $10.00 USD plus shipping.

Infantry Troops (8 troops per base for 32 total figs; some heavy weapons), 4 cards and 4 bases; 1/285th scale (6mm). $10.00 USD plus shipping.

Here's the link:

link

Palladium has already put them up for preorder for Kickstarter supporters. The $12 USD MSRP is a bit higher than getting the miniatures from GHQ (which are $9.95 USD). However these blisters do come with stat cards for RPG Tactics and like four RPG Tactics bases too. The infantry set also seems to have a different mix from the current ones (they have heavy weapons too). Still, not too bad. Kickstarter supporters can get them for $10 USD, so a nickel more then than the usual MSRP

Here's a pic of a blister:

This one is the head scratcher to me. Why the T55MV? Granted, it's a nice casting of a classic, generic tank. And yeah, it is a much improved and updated tank. But there is a lot more, shall we say advanced, kit out there that the UEDF could have purchased. Heck, you would think that the Russian Federation would at least sell the UN T80s or something better!

Right now this is only available to Kickstarter supporters however they seem to be saying that the rest of the world can jump in later this summer on these "Earth Defenders".

Anyway, I think it's cool that Palladium has paired off with GHQ. Perhaps GHQ can help them with other issues that they have had getting the miniatures thing going. Definitely a positive step that moves the game forward.

Now if they can get the second wave up and going.

This is just hilarious, but not in an actually mirthful way.

What a joke. Re-packaging a load of GHQ moderns and passing them off as miniatures for a sci-fi setting. I'd be laughing out loud, but in truth, part of the joke's on me; I was one of the fools foolish enough to let Palladium blow sparkles in my eyes, and take my money for the Kickstarter.

I have no idea why they chose the T55MV. I think the only tank we see in Macross was this one (briefly) :

Sometimes referred to as an M6 Tornado, although I have no idea if that's canon, or a fan designation.

Yes, I am hopeful that GHQ can make some very nice miniatures in the future, but that won't un-buck the current mess that is Robotech Tactics. Releasing random assortments of tanks and trucks certainly won't contribute to that goal either.

Re-packaging a load of GHQ moderns and passing them off as miniatures for a sci-fi setting.

Is it? Macross starts in 2009. Back in 1985 that was 24 years or so in the future. To us it's 6 years ago. We now know what sort of kit would exist in 2009 and for the most part the figures play the part. In Macross the wars broke out AFTER 1999 so modern miniatures would fit in the setting. I was planning to do that myself for battles on Macross Island. I'm personally motivated by the things seen in Macross Zero like the F14, Nimitz carriers, guided missile destroyers, and the infantry kit you see during the fight on the island. I also think you see Abrams tanks and other US gear in the first episode when the main character has his monologue.

So I personally think it's a great idea. But then again, I've been fairly pleased with this Kickstarter and with the mecha/stuff I've received. I got my money's worth with the first wave. The second wave is pure gravy to me. But that's me.

Oh, the trucks are for a scenario that is printed in the rules.

Sometimes referred to as an M6 Tornado, although I have no idea if that's canon, or a fan designation.

No clue either. I remember seeing it toward the end of the series when the Zentraedi blast the Earth and one tank with its crew and some civies get fried in the process.

I wonder if GHQ is going to do the conventional vehicles for the game? There are several in the show.

It makes sense from a "why reinvent the wheel?" standpoint, but there's been a lot of ire with how Palladium Books failed to timely deliver to their KS backers and the sheer number of parts the Valkyries had.

Coupled with Kevin Siembieda's recent update/confession telling us that Wave 2 likely won't happen until sometime next year TMP link "Nerd Rage" is the result.

I like Robotech but didn't take the plunge because I wanted see the final product first before making up my mind. I guess I should be glad.

The $12 USD MSRP is a bit steep, but GHQ will be having a price increase in July to $11.95 USD/pack: TMP link

Now, GHQ does (typically) 5 AFVs or ~60 infantry per pack (and usually 1 helo/aircraft), so the buyer will have to balance out the need for cards/bases versus the extra miniature.

Me, I'm not going to lie: I went in for the Kickstarter and am not overly sad (though I really want my Wave 2 since I paid for them), but that was mainly for their use in BattleTech. I'm still trying to figure out what to do with the Regults I have since I will more than likely never use them…

From what I've read and heard, game balance right now is skewed in favor of the RDF. Wave 2 might make the Zentraedi a bit more of a challenge.

Give them to me Failure16! My Tomahawks will happily chew them up between Battletech matches. I just wish the Officer's Pad was a bit smaller. It just doesn't work to me as a Marauder.

But the Spartans and Tomahawks are spot on for Archers and Warhammers.

@28 : I think the Zent's are just fine. Masses of pods with particle cannons… ouch. I barely break even against them. Toss in artillery pods. NOT PRETTY.

I struggle with missiles. The Zentraedi just shoot the s down by the swarms. I'm getting to where I'm ready to swear off the Valkyries. Just too many missiles and the GU-11, while a decent weapon, just doesn't have the pod popping oomph as the Tomahawk's particle cannons.

Or maybe it's just my missile curse from Battletech coming over to roost in Robotech?

It would be nice to see individual mechs blister packed in the future, along with the other unique Robotech vehicles.
With the Southern Cross and Mospedia based series still unrepresented, one would think that a blister pack of Cyclones would be nice to have.

I still wonder if the miniatures would have been better off if they were made less like overly complex model kits and were instead made like traditional minis or like collectible game minis.

Weren't they talking about redoing the game in a new scale, or did I imagine that?

No so much redoing but asking the Kickstarters if they would prefer going to 15mm for Southern Cross and New Generation. Apparently a number of Kickstarters and others argued the point to Kevin to the point where he thought he should present their ideas to us Kickstarters for our input. He and Palladium still plan on 6mm for all three eras but he wanted us to have a say as well. He said that he would consider a switch if the response was "overwhelming". This far, with only 10% responding, the large majority prefer 6mm. So it appears that "stay the course" is what Kevin will do scale wise.

Too bad really, I would love 15mm personally since it's my scale. But I want just one scale too. Kind of a bummer that the other two series of Robotech went for smallish to tiny mecha.

A 6mm Cyclone bike is too small. It should be 15mm.

And why stick with one scale? Macross and New Generation are totally unrelated. They were only tied together arbitrarily because they needed more episodes to get syndication.

Weren't they talking about redoing the game in a new scale, or did I imagine that?

Nope, just talking about doing the various "generations" of mecha in a larger scale, since basically only Macross is best served in 1/285aka6mm. 6mm Cyclones are tiny.

Too bad really, I would love 15mm personally since it's my scale. But I want just one scale too. Kind of a bummer that the other two series of Robotech went for smallish to tiny mecha.

Yeah, the other two series are not well-served in 6mm. I actually suggested that if you went 1/100aka15mm, you could use Bandai models for the common mecha, and save Palladium's time to only do the models that Bandai doesn't make in 1/100.

Personally, I'd really like to game Invid versus Valkyries, which really needs 6mm Invid.

I'm OK with paying a little extra for the stat cards and the game-appropriate number of tanks and/or Infantry. Also, GHQ is apparently doing the Convention Exclusives for Palladium, so it makes sense to repackage the various tanks and aircraft from GHQ.

Well a few of you may or may not know who I am. I run the Robotech Tactics FB fan page.

link

Originally a bunch of guys who like and enjoy 6mm wanted to mix and match and asked me to do some custom stat cards. From there GHQ had some orders with comments saying it was for RRT. From there they checked things out and people pointed them my way. So I got PB and GHQ in touch with each other. I was told they would have me help work on the conventional stuff some since people liked the conversions that were done. You can see those and more here…
link

I will also do any unit upon request. Just hail me and I'll see what I can do.

These might not be the official stats that come out. I've sent PB what I had done and was told they would get back to me but I know they have a PB guy messing with these so they are subject to change.

15mm would not work well when the larger mecha like Beta fighters would be on the table. RRT is a 6mm large scale combat game and not a smaller skirmish scale combat game where larger scale minis would work better. A game like that might be on the table somewhere down the line.

I still wonder if the miniatures would have been better off if they were made less like overly complex model kits and were instead made like traditional minis or like collectible game minis.

No need to wonder, as the answer is an unequivocal YES!!!

I don't share in much of the backer-rage that has plagued this Kickstarter, but one thing I really dislike is the complexity of the miniatures. They're not bad if you are putting together one for a display piece, but if you are assembling 100 of the blasted things, they become a needlessly tedious, PITA.

Agreed. You don't need more than 10 parts for a Valk with that level of detail, so that excuse does not wash.

Morpheus, thanks for the background, and letting yourself be known. It's interesting to discover that the arrangement with GHQ came about as a result of an initiative from GHQ; that is a fact which PB hasn't conveyed.

Can you provide some insight into the odd choices of moderns for the Defenders? I'm not sure what obsolete Soviet MBTs would be doing in the same OB as A-10's, for example…

Fanatik – Please do not dismiss my displeasure – nor that of many Robotech fans – as 'nerd rage'. It is disparaging and dismissive. I paid my money, and I have a right to express my disappointment with the result. My anger comes from being treated as a bystander in many aspects of the KS process. PB continuously proclaim how they are 'consulting' with the KS community, yet when they hear voices of dissent raised loudly, they ignore them.

The humming and hah-ing over the scale of future miniatures suggests a lack of planning and direction. Not consultation. Merely running a poll is not the same as providing a forum for feedback, discussion, dissent, and agreement with the player / KS community.

The plastic miniatures are worthy only of comparison with stuff GW were putting out in the 90's, if you want to consider them favourably. And even then, you'd need to be generous.

I won't re-run the issues from Gen Con, shipping, etc, which have been covered elsewhere. I don't intend to hijack this thread. Merely state my displeasure.

I really want to like RTT. I really do. This should have been the game I wanted when I was 14. It 'ain't. I cannot support it when I, and so many other backers, are treated with such contempt. Call it teenage heartbreak if you will. I call it a bad investment, and I don't mind advising others to avoid my mistake.

After discussion we did a lot of units with two sets of stats. One was for the units Pre-Arrival. The other was for units Post-Arrival with tech upgrades such as weapons and missiles. The hull was also improved a bit. Units fully designed after the SDF arrived, between when the Destroids were made and WWIII, were made slightly better than even the upgrades. This made 4 distinct levels for tech.

Pre-Arrival "Modern"
Post-Arrival "Modern Upgrades"
Post-Arrival "New"
UEDF Tech Destroids

We felt this would work best with the genre and allow the most flexibility.

I've done stats for all of those units…I was not privy to the choices made between PB and GHQ though.

And why stick with one scale? Macross and New Generation are totally unrelated. They were only tied together arbitrarily because they needed more episodes to get syndication.

I guess you can blame folks like me. I read the novels long before I saw the show so I'm more use to the idea that the Zentraedi were created to protect the Masters and that for centuries their foes were the Invid. So I want to play battles between the Zentraedi and the Invid. I'm also a fan of the Sentinels so I want to take my Bioroids up against the Invid or against other UEDF mecha. So yeah, I do want one scale "to rule them all". But maybe the Cyclones need to be on the "heroic" side of 6mm. Maybe near 10mm??? Maybe bump-up the other "small mecha" to be on the plus side for 6mm as well?

But man oh man do I wish this was in 15mm. That's my scale! But yes, despite my personal preference, I so see the reasoning that mecha like the Beta would be gigantic in this scale. Oh well, maybe they'll offer a "skirmish" scale and go 15mm for say New Generation mecha and troops. That would be cool.

@Morpheus

Thanks for the background on the whole GHQ alliance. Great stuff and we owe you guys a great debt. I love the idea of GHQ jumping in and helping with the Robotech line and putting in modern kit. Excellent stuff.

Still don't get the T55MV though! Maybe it's so generic that if fits? I mean, it's a classic tank and it does bare SOME resemblance to the tank in Robotech. Or maybe GHQ made too many T55s (like the Russians!) and want to sell it off to reduce stock.

I noticed that you have some basic rules on infantry in your Southern Cross faction pdf. Have you made cards for them?

Also, how would you stat up the LAVIII Stryker and its infantry? M1A1 Abrams? M2 Bradley? I want to use my modern Americans to combat the evil Zentraedi! Thanks!!

You don't need more than 10 parts for a Valk with that level of detail, so that excuse does not wash.

There *are* technical limitations on injection molded plastic that make it much easier to get high detail by increasing parts count.

But it's probable that a more experienced injection molding engineer could have reduced the parts count.

My complaint was how close those parts were to the sprues. *None* of my Marauder/Glaugs have their hull MGs because the gun barrel broke off the ball mount when I tried to cut the part off the sprue!

And why stick with one scale? Macross and New Generation are totally unrelated. They were only tied together arbitrarily because they needed more episodes to get syndication.

While it's true that Macross and the New Generation arcs are only related because HG needed 65 episodes of material, you can't easily play Zentraedi versus Invid unless the minis are in the same scale.

I'm honestly torn. I want to play Zents or Valks versus Invid, but the Cyclones and Invid are tiny figures in 6mm.

@TGunner,

I've got basic infantry and Cyclones done up. I do not have ASC armored infantry done up yet. The ASC with all the other units is done up though. I can make cards for them. I had not because I wanted to do Cyclones and UEDF infantry first to help understand and bracket how I would do ASC infantry. I can do those in a week or so. I just need to find some time.

@Lion, the Invid are fine at 6mm. They would be too big if at 15mm. I think scouts can be a bit bigger though. Maybe make the scouts 10mm.

Cool, thanks Morpheus!

@Morpheus1975: Were these your pictures on the RRT kickstarter update:

Fan-made (and 3d Printed) 6mm Cyclones between a Spartan and Regult.

Those same 6mm Cyclones next to a 15mm Cyclone.

I think I'd be willing to go with oversized Cyclones and maybe Invid, but I'd prefer 15mm because all my other mass-combat gaming (aside from RRT) is 15mm.

Nope, those minis are not mine. I'm not sure who did those. I do know of a few places where I can get some though….

Fan-made (and 3d Printed) 6mm Cyclones between a Spartan and Regult.

I'd have no problem gaming those along side the 1st wave Valkyries and Battlepods. In a game where those are the largest thing on the table, I admit its not as impressive as the 15mm version, though. For people who want to play the original forces agains the later (Invid) stuff, whould it be that bad to field mixed scales? Say 6mm Battlepods against 15mm Cyclones on the same table?

Some people freak out about scale if the difference is too pronounced. They say it is because LOS and all are unbalanced.

I still think a slight "sliding scale" would be best--make the Cyclones, Bioroids and Invid troopers 8-10mm-ish. I don't believe everything for First Generation/Macross is "true" 6mm anyway. I'd be shocked if the Zentradi infantry will be small enough to look like they could sit inside the cockpit of a battlepod or officer's pod. Besides, having the scale all over the place is quite thematic for Robotech!

Scale is overrated anyway!

I like Battletech's argument that the models are just 3D computer models showing unit location and composition and that the game is a C3i device and you're a "mech commander" giving orders to your subordinates. Scale doesn't really matter!

"I don't share in much of the backer-rage that has plagued this Kickstarter, but one thing I really dislike is the complexity of the miniatures. They're not bad if you are putting together one for a display piece, but if you are assembling 100 of the blasted things, they become a needlessly tedious, PITA."

As someone who has assembled some of GHQ's fighters…

T-55s make some sense, in that the EBSIS in Robotech was supposed to be so far behind the west, that their aircraft weren't even mega-structures (you do still need to worry though, as their missiles were mega-damage weapons!) and their mecha (introduced in later RPG books) were quite crude, so it makes sense to use Cold War equipment for them. The RDF, however, are stated to have upgraded quite heavily, and new aircraft and vehicles are presented for them throughout the range of books.