"Using Force on Force for Colonials?" Topic

I am considering taking the basics of Force on Force and adapting it to Colonial era gaming. Here are some thoughts on how I would translate the game mechanics and appreciate any suggestions, feedback, even if it to say you think it is a bad idea and why not use X? Although if you make that statement I want you to back up your reasons. Just saying X is the best at Colonials is insufficient.

Anyway here goes and hope this becomes an interesting and lively discussion. Part of what I am seeking is a way to create a fast play convention game that keeps all players engaged. I got started thinking about this because of the recent TSATF debate.

1)Keep the rule of 4 and use of various quality dice to reflect troop quality and morale. Although any quality dice level units above a D8 would be extremely rare.

2) Use the initiative and non-initiative side game mechanic along with the ability to reaction move or fire.

3) Use/keep the same movement for tactical and fast movement

4) Most Colonial units would be ten figures and would be considered at least regulars,i.e., normally a D8 TQ and Morale. Scenarios would dictate whether the unit was normal supplied or poorly supplied, same would go for motivation. Although I tend to not use the motivation rules as it is just one more bit of chrome to the game.

5) Most Native units would be irregulars and be about 10 figures as well, although they could be smaller or larger depending on the scenario and would follow the rules for irregular units. Although some "Native" units would be regulars, for example Egyptian Infantry. Regardless most native units would have a TQ of D6 but could have the same die for morale or in many cases higher to reflect fanatic units. This might be especially important since many Native units will not have firearms and that would give the chance to come to blows with Colonial forces.

Musket armed native units would normally be considered poorly supplied which would reduce their fire and would not be able to reaction fire. Actually this may be redundant I seem to recall that irregulars cannot perform reaction fire.

Rifle armed native units would also normally be considered poorly supplied. Could they perform reaction fire????

Guns:

Cannon which would mostly be of the small mountain gun variety or perhaps Krupp guns would have a team of three to four figures and have five quality dice and could reaction fire but only fire once during a turn.

Gatling,Maxim and similar machine guns would have a three man team and throw five quality dice and could perform reaction fire and thus fire more than once during a turn. Of course each successful reaction fire roll means a loss of a die each time fired.

PomPom guns or other rapid fire ordinance that is normally mounted say on a boat or ship would have a team of two to three and probably have five to six fire dice that would be one die shift higher than the crew's TQ to reflect the highly lethal and penetration power of these weapons.

I am still working on the ideas for vehicle in particular boats. Anyway let the discussion begin.

The basic engine is extremely sound and a lot of fun. I see no reason this would not work. I would look too at the Ambush Alley which deals with insurgents – probably a lot of good ideas there too for your native tribes, mutinous rabble, etc.

Oh yes Ambush Alley has a number of things that would work well in the appendix regarding insurgents that translate perfectly to this.

I had also thought about this, but not as much as you have!

I think your ideas are good ones. The reaction mechanism might work very well in modeling the unpredictable nature of the natives. I'd lean towards giving all natives the ability to react. Perhaps reacting by moving should be easier than firing? That way native player could lurk around and give the regular player some headaches. And would give some bonus for the charismatic leaders to help that along!

Also would allow natives out of contact movement in most terrain, since they know the ground and were adept at creeping around!

Looking forward to seeing how this goes?

Mike Pierce

Just don't arm all natives in a unit with guns and they will probably behave more like you want – charge or move instead of fire.

I believe irregulars can always react, but only once a turn as where regulars can react multiple times ( with attendant loss of firepower dice each activation if firing).
Some things I think you should consider:
1. Firepower. FOF is designed with assault rifles in mind, and FOF games can produce a lot of casualties quickly as befits modern weapons. I suggest that bolt action armed troops always suffer a one die deduction and breech/muzzle loaders be reduced to only firing once per turn.
2. Tactical initiative. FOF is great in that it reflects the ability of fire teams to act/react as they do in reality, with significant freedom of maneuver. But NCOs in 19th Century Western armies did not routinely act as tactical leaders nor generally have that much freedom of action. I suggest that your teams can only activate if they have LOS to an officer. If no LOS, they must pass TQ check. However, professional Western troops should always be able to fire and react.
3. I'd also suggest limiting that leader LOS range to 12' or less to reflect the need of voice communication (maybe allow some simple bugle calls) and limited tactical flexibility below company level organization.
4. Look at themed fog of war cards to add some cultural traits to the many varied enemies of colonial Western powers.

I'm a big fan of FOF but suggest the above to adequately address the limited tactical flexibility of those armies.

psivh43, you and I seem to be thinking along similar lines. However the out of contact movement might be enough in that regard.

Leadjunky,if I follow the direct rules from Force on Force/Ambush Alley even if you have fire armed Natives, for instance say Afangan Pathans armed with jazails, being irregular means they can only engage in one round of fire regardless if they initiate or are reacting to being fired upon. So that might balance things out.

I'm re-reading Force on Force at the moment and seeing that this may indeed work out really well with some small tweaks to make it more specific to the period. Here is one thought I had regarding reaction fire regardless of which side is shooting, since we are not talking modern automatic and semiautomatic firearms, instead of losing a fire die each time a unit shoot more than once, I suggest that the unit loses half its fire dice. Example: A unit of British Infantry with ten figures and armed with their Martini-Henry rifles has initiative and fires upon a unit of spear armed natives in their line of sight. The natives decide to take the volley in the hopes of closing the distance with the British. The Natives take some casualties but make their morale test and in the non-initiative phase try to press home their attack. The British player could attempt to do a reaction move but instead, stiff upper lip and indefatigable decide to give the Natives a bit more of the Queen's lead. This will be the second time they have fired in the turn so instead of throwing ten D8s they only throw five. Normally in Force on Force they would only have their fire dice reduced to nine. Yet I feel this would better reflect that as stated these are not modern semi-automatic and automatic weapons. If a situation were to happen where the same unit might be able to react and fire a third time the dice would be halved again rounding down. Thoughts?

Kallman
That is an even better suggestion than my previous. I think you cannot stress the significant reductions in firepower versus modern weapons.

Oh, and perhaps under the heading of putting the cart before the horse, what do you think of the following names for said Colonial Rules…

Bayonet against Spear

Mad Dogs and Englishmen

Swanning among the Hostiles

I say "End of Time" as colonialism was a rude awakening an introdution of ancient cultures to the industrialized world!

Maggot I love your suggestions and of course I am also trying to keep things as simple as possible. Part of the goals is a one page easy to read cheat sheet, and that players have the game mechanics well in hand by the end of turn two. Your thoughts on the command limitations on officers are excellent. I will have to give that one some consideration.

What about the things like Gatling Guns and other ordnance, how would you handle those. While the Gatling, Maxim, Nordfelt guns could be devastating they were also prone to jamming and generally being difficult to maintain on campaign.

Oh and yes I had forgotten about Fog of War Cards, but of course! Here are a few ideas…

|"It's Hot Enough to Boil a Monkey's Bum"

It is a sweltering day in the jungle/savanna/desert and your troops are starting to feel the effects. The unit that draws this card is down graded one Troop Quality rating. Therefore if their TQ and Morale drop to the next lower die not to go below D6. If the unit is already at D6 then they are now considered poorly supplied with the corresponding penalties.

"I'm not a BLOODY camel!"

The unit that pulls this card have not been conserving their water rations and are now considered poorly supplied. If a Native unit draws this card disregard.

"Witch Doctor says you gonna DIE!"

Effects Native Units only

The omens are not good and every warrior sees only death awaiting them. The units moral is lowered to a D6. If morale is already a D6, then D6 models leave the battle. This may take a unit to zero and which case they entire unit is removed. Depending on scenario conditions this may give the opposing side victory points.

I beleive there is already a set of rules "Mad Dogs and Englishmen"…but you can't copyright titles….

Any period where they don't have radios between teams or dickers and cell phones will be a bit off if no command and control constraints come in the way.
Possibly play with hidden troops, it will slow down things but in many cases be more realistic.
Irregulars should , one way or another, not behave with the same logic as a 21st century western chap.
Use some of the good features of Science vs pluck to mix in. It might be worth.

Ah, should have known that Mad Dogs and Englishmen was already taken. Ah well. OK here is another issue, I want wild animals to also be part of the fun. In other words random attacks by enraged elephants, hungry hippos, cunning crocodiles, and leaping leopards, or would that just be too difficult to work in. I thought it might work by way of the Fog of War cards. Thoughts?

I am certainly looking at how to limit command and control. It may be a simple solution of Troop Quality of the officer whether commissioned, NCO, or Native Warlord/Chieftan, equals the radius range that they can influence. As an example if you have a British sergeant with a TQ of a D8, then he can only influence actions within an 8 inch radius of his command. Does that sound plausible?

1. For your machine guns just treat the as regular support team weapons. 1+2med support+1team die shooting. If crew drops by half, loose the team bonus.
2. I'd stick with the command issues I noted, keep it simple and my suggestion comes out of the rule book anyway.
3. Tommorow's War set gives suggestions on how to deal with non human characters. Id say a lion might have 2xD10 close assault attacks but only D6 morale. Animal's fight or flight tends to be smarter than a human. They won't charge a hill covered by MG teams! A radius for it attacking or a fog card are good ideas as well.
Keep it simple as the reaction sequence will occupy most of the thinking.

A friend of mine alerted me to this thread. Sorry it took so long for me to reply, but I've been on vacation this week.

I'm the lead author and designer of "To the Last Cartridge: Britain's Colonial Wars, 1879-1902" which is a set of 19th Century Colonial rules based on the core Force on Force mechanics and due to be published by Ambush Alley Games. They have been written, tested, and the initial layout finished. We are waiting on Ambush Alley to edit the final draft at this point. The original intent was to have these out last year, but they were delayed. I hope to see them on the shelf soon, but you'll have to ask Ambush Alley Games for more details on that.

Our rules are tactical scale with units representing roughly company sized units of infantry, Cavalry squadrons, and two gun sections and each figure representing some ten men. Units of regular infantry run about 10 figures while native units of troops like Zulus and Mahdists can be up to 20 figures strong. There will also be provisions for one to one scale skirmish games as well.

The core mechanics have been heavily modified to reflect both the increased scale and the nature of the genre. One major change that will interest Force on Force players is the fact that units now have four core stats: shooting, melee, troop quality, and morale.

The core rule book will ship with full army lists and troop statistics for the Anglo-Zulu War, the 2nd Afghan War, the Sudan Campaign, and the Second Boer War. This is the first AAG product that will come with a points system so that points based "pick up games" can be supported as well as the usual scenario driven games that previous AAG products support.

I was given the green light to talk openly about this set some time ago. So I'd be glad to answer questions about the rules.

Ah well and I was going to post my game design on the Ambush Alley forum. Well Martin good to hear that there will be game set in the colonial era using the Force on Force game mechanic. I am looking forward to seeing the rule book when it comes out. So were any of the ideas presented close to the mark?

I'm looking forward to it too. We are pretty excited about the project and if it proves successful, I have ideas for several supplements.

The way you allow rapid fire weapons to react more than once is close. On the other hand one design decision we made early on was to scrap the "generic" approach towards firearms that core FoF uses. Given the wide disparity in firearms used in this genre/period, we decided that we had to provide weapon statistics. A Brown Bess operates in a very different manner than does a Lee Medford after all. So our rules allow for six different classes of small arms, two broad categories of artillery, and two types of machineguns.

Lost this thread, but great to hear that this is moving forward under Ambush Alley. I have colonials all waiting to give this a try!!

Mike

Great suggestion on AAG Forum for gaming forming of squares is to activate a Battalion or company…..which may require a TQ check Pass/ Fail leading to possibility of partially formed squares (one Company or Bn failed TQ and is lagging behind a little).