"Perry AWI wish list" Topic

After some interesting responses to my plastic militia post I got around to thinking what figures I would like to see in the Perry AWI range, Fergusons rifles, Brunswick dragoons, Barner light inf and a couple of packs of personalities, Burgoyne etc would keep me happy, any more ?

I would like them to expand their range of AWI senior officer commands for all the nationalities that were involved in the conflict. Mounted and foot figures.

Something similar to the Napoleonic range they do for their French and Russians.

If by "Ferguson's rifles" you mean the rifle-armed unit that fought in the Philadelphia campaign, you can create these quite easily right now. Use the Perry metal light infantry in roundabouts and simply shorten the musket; if you have any tumplines/blanket rolls left over from a box of the plastic British infantry, you could add them. The "light infantry in feathered hats" pack from the Foundry range includes a guy lying down with what looks like a rifle, although the other figures can also have their muskets trimmed. Strictly speaking, the coats on these figures are wrong for light troops as they have turnbacks (although this makes them perfect for the 40th Foot, and possibly other line units), but nobody will notice at this scale.

Alan asked me for some uniform details on both the dismounted dragoons and the von Barner Light Battalion, a little while back, so they are definitely on his "to do" list, once he gets back onto AWI.

I just posted pictures of von Barner's LI using the Copplestone sculpted Frei Korps SYW Prussians. All you need is no lapels. However I don't remember the cuff detail.

I already have Brunswick dismounted dragoons, but would like to see some mounted. This assumes that they were able to get mounts. I don't want to use regulars because they would be wearing canvas overalls rather than heavy boots.

I would like to see jaegers with amusettes.

Ditto mounted jaegers.

Finally, of course, Washington crossing the Delaware.

thanks for the Ferguson tip, I have a couple of the old Foundry L/I packs somewhere, will get the scalpel out. A couple more ideas probably pure fantasy but…..plastic artillery set with limbers/drivers etc and Spanish !! you never know what will grip Alan !

I'll second the Spanish suggestion.

Rick

I will chime in on Spanish but I would like them in metal.

Two things they could do which would get the most "bang for the buck":

1. American dragoons, with separate heads for the 3 regiments, as the main difference was in the headgear.
2. Generic artillery, as both sides used mostly the same guns and has similar uniforms.

Pan M – If you look at the AWI catalogue on their website, you will find they have made all FOUR Continental LD regiments, plus militia cavalry, and sets of gunners in pretty much every clothing combination you can think of (which you can then mix and match to your heart's content).

Winston – To answer your enquiries –

1) Any normal mounted SYW Prussian dragoons will give you what you need, as the Brunswick uniform was pretty much identical apart from the cuffs – which are covered up by gauntlets anyway, when mounted. There was a single troop of about 30 men who were found horses almost immediately after the capture of Fort Ticonderoga, and were used as escorts and despatch riders at Burgoyne's HQ (they didn't go on the Bennington trip, so lasted for the whole campaign).

2) Pack AW123 will give you two Jaeger amusettes with wheeled mantlets.

3) I, too, would like to see mounted jaeger appear very soon. Unfortunately, few manufacturers realise how numerous they were or how widely used, hence nobody makes them. There were two full companies at one point – around 200 all ranks.

Hey, SuperMax. I didn't know that about the amusettes!
I just put them on my next WarStore order.

I think the range is pretty comprehensive – amazing in fact (although it could do with a bit of splitting up and sorting on the website – easy to miss things…). There are a few wish-list items I would have though;

Mounted jaegers have already been mentioned, and some more mounted command/personalities would be great (Arnold, Johnnie B, etc).

Some Royal Navy/Seamen boxes would be nice. The RN contributed forces to many actions and campaigns, particularly sieges (St johns, Savannah, Yorktown etc etc), and the basic ratings did not differ in dress particularly between the sides – just need different officers.

What I would really like to see the Perrys do however is extend the scope of the ranges to cover other theatres – specifically India and the carribean.

The carribean would not need much – naval types (mentioned), A few Spanish, and an extension to the French range to cover some of the Colonial units – plenty of inspiration to be found in the Osprey book on the French army. For the wargamer, the carribean offers a fascinating opportunity to improvise amphibious scenarios, naval actions, sieges (Pensacola, mobile), and more set- piece actions like La Vigie. An "island-hopping" campaign game for the 18th century?

What I really pray for somebody to do (heck I would even help fund it) is a supporting range to cover the late c18th in India. I know that purists will say that the wars against the mahrattas and Haider of Mysore have nothing to do with the AWI, and if you are an American, that is probably right. But for the British, once the French declared, the war was a truly global conflict, and Operations in India influenced British strategic thinking as much (maybe at times more) than operations in the colonies; and the Indian wars were huge in scope – Haider invaded the Carnatic with over 150,000 men, and there were dozens of battles and sieges (and massacres unfortunately). Some of those battles were epic, and how Coote ever won at Porto Novo is still a masterpiece in the use of aggressive manoeuver against a vastly superior foe. It did not all go the British way however, complicated manoeuvering in front of a superior enemy led to several defeats – the biggest being Baillies defeat which was the worst disaster to befall British arms in India at the time (and possibly thereafter).

Again, a lot of the existing range supports the Indian campaigns (you have already got basic French and British infantry and artillery). Clearly Sepoys would be needed for the colonial powers – but again their dress between the sides was pretty similar (the French seem to have experimented with different coat colours more) – and could be interchangeable were it not for the blasted bands on the Charleville muskets!

Indeed, if you produced generic sepoys in shorts (Janghayas), short coats and sashes, and then made interchangeable heads or headgear with the different styles of turban ("northern", sundial, that tall framed version used later on) then those minis would do for everything form Clive to Wellesley.
Obviously then you need Mysoreans and Mahrattas, but perfectly doable with a few boxes of Pindarri horse, Bragirs, regular infantry, irregular levies, and some gunners. Again, done right, they could be used right up to and including wellesleys campaigns, which should make them more saleable.

Anyway, you wanted wishlists…

If the Perrys want to wargame the AWI in India, then they will make figures for it.
I think I have figured out their cunning business plan.

Mounted commanders in civilian dress

@winston smith – that is probably very true. Combining personal interests with making a business is probably why they are so good!

If you are right, and either of them read any of this, perhaps I should offer to whet their appetites by recommending a couple of books; fortescue (obviously), but also Coote Bahadur by EW Sheppard for a good overview of his battles against Haider Ali; The Best Black Troops in the World by Channa Wickremesekera for a fascinating study of Indian warfare at the time and the emergence and professionalisation of the Sepoy; When the Tiger fought the Thistle by Alan Tritton for Baillie's defeat and a real military mystery…all good starting stuff.

I have them all somewhere in my collection, and would be happy to lend if it furthered the cause!

Mounted personalities for English and Americans. What about the Anhalt-Zerbst regiment with the goofy headdress?

Spanish
British Royal Marines
Canadian Militia

@ Winston & crazycoote,

If the Perrys want to wargame the AWI in India, then they will make figures for it.

I think they did both the Sikh Wars and Mutiny ranges for Foundry, so they obviously like the sub-continent in wargaming terms, and I sense that Alan will make Sepoys to go with his new pre-/early Peninsula British, as several HEIC units fought in the Egyptian campaign. The problem with any H&M-era "British in India" range is the enemy – more specifically the irregular types. There's just so damned many of them, sculptors either can't make a full range fast enough, or else lose interest.

@ KSmyth – I know these are on a to-do list; if not before then I suspect they would come out as part of the metal "support figures" to go with the Militia plastic set. As regards the Anhalt Zerbst guys, none of them ever saw active service, so I doubt they'd figure high on the "to do" list, given that much more "active" troops are not yet represented. That said, if you look at the Hungarian infantry in the Eureka "French Revolutionary Wars" Austro-Hungarian range, you'll find something close enough to work at 28mm level, I would have thought.

@ Rallynow

1) Spanish – I honestly have no idea if they would do them or not; you could always email them and ask. However, do bear in mind that this would actually require two sub-ranges, not just one, as most of the units in America wore different uniforms from their European counterparts (who were more involved numerically). I imagine the answer would be driven by whether all of the research needed to do them properly would justify the sales and, of course, the consequent delays in putting out more useable/requested figures.

2) Marines – Unless you want them in the "slop clothing" worn aboard ship, then Marines (not "Royal" until 1802, hence the white facings in the AWI) can be supplied via the Foundry British, especially the "firing" and "attacking" packs, as these have only the crossbelts, no packs or other kit.

3) Canadian Militia – It's not entirely clear what they wore; those in Quebec were issued green coats, faced red, with buff small clothes (as were some of the British regulars in the Quebec garrison during 1776), but the same outfits were rejected by Montreal militiamen, who preferred their "old" clothing, which is generally taken to mean the F&I War outfits. This article by James Kochan looks at who is likely to have worn what:-

link

He suggests that Burgoyne provided the "old style" uniforms for the Canadians who accompanied him. However, given that they only numbered about 200, I susect that this would be low down on the Perry "to do" list, and could easily be covered by the Conquest Canadian Militia figures, which are of a size compatible with the Perry stuff.

DISCLAIMER: The above are just my thoughts, based on non-confidential conversations that I (and others) have had with Alan over the past couple of years. I don't work for the Perrys, although I do some research for Alan on AWI matters. They do read these columns, but generally won't comment themselves as they simlpy don't have time to answer even a fraction of the queries and comments (and, of course, there would be far more if they ever started doing so!). I am NOT privy to where the AWI range as a whole sits in Alan's list of priorities, except that he has said it will probably be at least the end of 2015 before he makes more AWI figures, because of his commitments to the WW1, Waterloo, and Agincourt centenaries.

Super Max,

Thanks for the commentary. Disclaimer understood.

Totally forgot the EIC troops sent to Egypt. Would you happen to have a source for info on uniforms/ which presidency (I would assume Bombay).

As to the numbers needed to field Indian armies (particularly irregulars), I get what you are saying; but if you have not read the Wickremesekera book I mentioned above, I would heartily recommend it. Essentially those of us steeped in 18th century linear warfare and thinking have to change our mind set a bit. The author does a good job of describing how the Traditional Indian military approach and expectation was very different to Western European. A lot of those irregulars were not intended as front line fighters on the battlefield. They were there essentially to intimidate, follow up, act as garrisons, or swarm over the countryside looting/foraging etc. Even if they were intended to engage, their individual Chiefs/commanders/mercenary contractors might take a more circumspect view on the day…

In wargaming terms, the majority would be milling about off-table.

Similarly unit frontages for linear troops would equate to a unit of irregulars (which would form up in depth) many times the size of the westernised troops, meaning you can inflate the figure scale for Indian troops quite easily. An Indian army on the tabletop still needs to look much bigger than its western counterpart, but not by as much as perhaps one would think or the actual numbers involved in reality might indicate.

Crazycoote,

Thanks for that – I fall into the "Essentially those of us" category, except to the extent that I am familiar with the quote from the Russian general who defeated XX,000 Turks, only later to admit he'd included all the camp followers, admin staff, and general REMF types!

Some years ago, I did suggest to a friend who was attempting The Sudan in 15mm, that one way around the "hordes" problem (both in cost and painting time) was to use large "mass" bases, line the figures 2-3 deep around the front and sides, and then cover the rest of the base and the rear edge with suitably spray-painted cotton wool to replicate the huge dust clouds such numbers would inevitably kick up. Reversing the base during the first moves onto the table would hide the type and weaponry of the troops occupying the base until fairly close.

Nice idea SM, might try that.

I have just remembered another one for the wish-list. Since I have just re-read War out of Niagara, how about a couple of boxes of Butlers Rangers? Raggedy uniforms, Indian Gaiters, and of course the Great/Detestable/misunderstood (select) Walter Butler himself.

In the absence of subject-specific figures, I would suggest using the riflemen and Stockbridge Indian packs, and throw in some command figures from the British Saratoga metals (some of the rank-and-file Saratoga metal packs also have British soldiers in leggings). One of the mounted officers packs has a hunting shirt figure that could be used for a mounted Butler.

Hmmm,

I am sure that the Rangers would have had a few rifles, but I thought they were predominantly musket/bayonet armed. I also believe they wore short military jackets, although again I am sure there were more than a few who would have worn "civvies".

I did buy some galloping major FIW figures to use as Butlers Rangers, but they are quite a bit chunkier than my Perry/Foundry chaps. Lovely models though, I will get round to painting them eventually.

There is also the whole Red vs White Facings controversy that I still have not sorted out which way to go on…

Don't bother to sort it out if it keeps toys you want to play with off the table until you decide. Pick what you think looks best and go with it.

In other news, the Perry Hessians with amusettes just came in.

Yellow polka dot it is then!

I love those amusette models. Sadly mine are also still sitting in the unpainted "one day soon" pile alongside the Rangers (bit of a theme here).

Perhaps I should stop wish-listing for new shinies and learn to finish what I start…

I want them to do a " Death of Wolfe" vignette. The Benjamin West painting!

That would be the French and Indian War.

My thoughts:

- some hat packs allowing the Brit plastics to be transformed into Guards, maybe continental LI caps too for the American plastics;
- more command personalities;
- agree with SM that there are a couple of niche type troops still needed for Saratoga campaign, such as Barner LI Bn and Brunswick dragoons zu fuss;
- one or two character packs such as marauding light infantry;
- some generic sappers (coats off) digging;
- overseas French troops (single breasted tunics).

Actually not a huge amount really – all of the above could be done in 20-25 packs which is not a huge number given the size of the existing (fantastic) range.
EC

1) A box of plastic militia in standing/firing pose. The Perry's have done some fantastic plastic boxes, but this could top them all.

2) Plastic Hessians, usable for the SYW.

To go back to the OP I have made the von Barner LI from the Copplestone Freikorps SYW figures from Foundry. They are as close to actual Perry sculpts as you can get.
They have no lapels!

Guys, the Barner uniform is a lapeless coat with 'Swedish' cuffs. All the Brunswick troops wore Swedish cuffs. I have seen reconstructions with belly boxes, but I'm not convinced of that, given the list of equipment lost compiled by Breymann after Bennington.

I'd like to see Waldeckers, they went everywhere, and their grenadiers had fur caps.

And several of the German battalions had no lapels.

Oh, and the (actual) Hessians don't seem to have worn overalls until 1781 in New York, I can't say for those sent south.

I would second the request mounted Jaegers and Spanish forces. If they do get around to the Spanish, it would be cool to see them make a pack of Miskito Indians, who fought for the British in the AWI against Spain in Central America (pretty obscure I admit though).

I would like to see mounted loyalists in cocked or floppy hats for units such as Emmerich's Chasseurs or Delancey's Cowboys that were active around New York City.

Also Washington's Life Guard--just because they look cool.

Pan, Kings Mt, does dismounted Dragoons with separate heads.

link

I wish the Perry brothers would do British Fusiliers in their Bearskin helmet and dismounted British 17th Light Dragoons.

TomS.

Yeah, the fusiliers in bearskin would only be good for the 23rd in Boston, but that's why I want them.
That would be the only time any fusiliers would wear that cap.

as for dismounted British LD, see what King's Mountain has come up with recently. They might have what you want.

"I would like to see mounted loyalists in cocked or floppy hats for units such as Emmerich's Chasseurs or Delancey's Cowboys"

You can use the Eureka Miniatures range of continental cavalry for this, as they come with separate hats. I used them for Emmerich's Chasseurs recently – see here: link

Thanks, that's a good tip (and they'll work for DeLancey's as well).

Nice paint job by the way.