"Micro armor rules" Topic

Can you pro's throw me out some armor rules for larger scale engagements (1/300)? Something with decent/detailed armor penetration tables (still focusing on combined arms tactics).

Gracias

Would recommend Micro Melee from Britton Publishers. You can check out YouTube examples – also have dedicated scenario books that are very interesting. link
Otherwise another great set with awesome TOE's and plenty of scenarios online is Battlefront WWII by Fire and Fury.
link

You know from my other comments I like Flames of War, with a few tweaks….email me for details…mark@scalecreep.com

Tigers & Stalins is perfect for large engagements, fairly easy and straightforward. If you want the details of armor penetration, go for Tractics or ASL.

Schwere Kompanie is pretty detailed too….

link

DOH

Crispy….you NAILED it. Those were the rules I had in my mind thinking about this scale.

Thank you so much!!!

If looking for platoon stand games as well then give Fistful of Tows a look. Despite the name it also covers WWII with data charts and tables of organization. It handles armored combat very well. Not nearly as detailed as SK since it is platoon level of course. Another good set for this level is Command Decision. Not quite as good as FFT3 for armor but it has an interesting take on command and control.

My Jagdpanzer is over at the shop. Will dig them up later tonight…

We still play the 1984 'Fire! Ogon! Freur! which means it is an 'old style' of wargaming mechanics.
Armor value versus gun penetration.
Actual values were grouped into classes for easier and faster play. So if a gun can penetrate a 3 class and the armor value is a 2, then a hit is made. No longer having to worry about failing by a couple of millimeters. Which really does not matter since spalling would cause a lot of damage inside the turret/hull whether the round penetrated or not.

there is also Panzer-War. All the detail you could want and they are free to boot.

panzer-war.com

Gotta plug our game…. Mein Panzer. It was designed around 1/300 scale, has all the combined arms rules – artillery, aircraft, infantry, command moral, engineering, and more. Databooks for different periods from WWI, Spanish Civil War, WW2, Korea and others. These have all vehicles, aircraft, and TO&E you could ask for.

More info at odgw.com

Any questions feel free to pm me

Thanks. Kenny

Tank Charts if you can find a copy.

I like Tigers & Stalins too. Easy to learn, fairly detailed, and a quick read. More time to kick some Tiger butt.

Okay here is how shooting works in Jagdpanzer 2nd Ed. (All D20)

• Roll to hit based on range (Short=13, Medium 11, Long 8). Modify die roll for terrain, smoke, moving, gun stabilizers, etc.
  
• If you hit check penetration. Cross reference weapon and range to get your penetration value.
  
• Determine hit location. Cross reference vehicle data for armor value at that location. Subtract armor from penetration.
  
• Roll that number or less to penetrate. Penetration is a kill. Roll less than half that number and it is a burning, exploding kill.
  
• Repeat as necessary

Thanks Crispy

Just to add a note to Extra Crispy's post: by "hit location" its either Front,Side,Rear, or Top.

Tank Charts Group
link

Wolfhag

I actually quite like Jagdpanzers system, it is actually fairly simple, just sounds complicated in the explanation and gives believable results. All the games I have played it has moved along nicely as well, no 1 hour turns for just one side to shoot.

Funny but we actually have a copy of the Tank Charts system at the store. It looks to have all of the expansions as well. It was sold initially in sections and I got them at a convention.
I just have not decided how to sell them. Take them to a show or put them on eBay.

Hello one and all.. I could use some help.
IM really looking into start playing 15mm – 1/100 armor games. PSC are making some really great looking tanks in this scale.
However, I have yet to see any rules for that scale. My thinking is either go with something new such as Warlords Tank War, for 1/56 – 28mm and half the ranges or Micro rules 1/300 – 1/285 and double the ranges, etc.

Any suggestions on a good set fairly simple But still have the realistic weapon / armor stats.

Thanks

Hi

I would recommend Panzer Grenadier Deluxe or the Battlegroup series of rules and supplements.

Alternatives are Command Decision Test of Battle and Battlefront WW2

All well suited to 15mm but of course as you say most rule sets adaptable with changes to ground scales so many and varied are your choices :-)

Cheers

Thanks Sgt.

All well suited to 15mm.. most rule sets adaptable with changes to ground scales so many and varied are your choices :-)

Its like having free run of an amusement park, so many to choose from, a bit overwhelming.
Ive considered simpley going along w FOW, however those that do play, have all basically said: "Its a fun game, but if historical accuracy is what your lookng for, FOW really isnt it."

Mein Panzer <\i>fits the bill perfectly.

As soon as sombody says lots of charts I quake. Thast usually means the author has little idea of the real complexities. The angle you strike a shot in WWII is as critical as the actual thickness. That being said you need something. Really even our set (Maneouver Group) works with 6mm as we have done it. You use the same ground scale as for 15mm which was the old Challenger scale of 1mm to 1 meter. However lots of troops and lots of tanks does not work. Troops fight battles in days tanks in hours. Certaily if you have virtually no troops a battalion of tanks ve a platoon of tigers (we got a kill rate of about 5 to 7 to 1 Shermans to Tigre's).
You do need to turn turrets which puts some folk off at 6mm. Actually its just OK but it can be hell for very small vehicles. Not suited to very large divisional battles if you belive that the action was really at Division level. I it might be you load the free stuff first and see if its your thing.

Yes but you never use all of the charts. Only those for which you have tanks.

As soon as sombody says lots of charts I quake. Thast usually means the author has little idea of the real complexities.

Citations?

Accuracy of hitting a target is dominated the to predict crossing rate, this is difficult to calculate easily on a wargames table and not really solved in the real world until the advent of the later range finder. For WWII angle of short is critical in both elevation and angle. Therefore if you want even basics you need compound angle calculation. This even gives me a headache just doing it for a CADS model. Never mind every shot in a war game. Survival against a Tiger is enhanced due to its low turret travese rate and hence may be more critical than minor variations in armour thickness. I can go on but even I am getting bored.

UshCha,
I've found charts can help or be a pain.

Charts that have you hunting all over them to find modifiers (and you are unsure of how many are pertinent) within certain range bands and then the typical IF-THEN-ELSE and rules exceptions drive me crazy.

I've found some charts have multiple modifiers built in for range increments so actually speed up the game over charts like I mention above. If it's a simple row and column look up without math to get more realism and detail it could be tolerable. The more customized the chart is for a vehicle or gun enables you to include variables into the basic value rather than a universal basic number and then modifiers for different ammo types, guns and vehicles that force the player to hunt them down and determine it they qualify.

In Bird & Livingston's book they describe a formula the British devised to determine the chance of hitting a moving target. It took into account target angle, range, speed, time of flight and increased aiming error for the gunner. It's not that complicated and could be made playable or a version of it abstracted.

Wolfhag

For large scale battles, Division plus, then try Krieg ohne Hass.
Fast play, no record keeping and lots of action.
Currently available from Magister Militum.