"Should pikemen have gloves?" Topic

Would ECW pikemen have been supplied with gloves?

..only if they were doing the washing up!!!

( I think so.. but I suspect it was not the highest priority – some probably had them – some did not..)

Cheers Chokidar. I'm doing Newcastle's White Coats and being sturdy Northern lads they're getting gloves.

They were I believe one of the better organised and equipped regiments – probably the best of the Northern army – so my bet would be you have got it right

Possibly at issue. Once on campaign though, I would have thought only the necessaries would be replaced. And gloves are unlikely to be considered necessary I think.

I'd say yes. And I'd also say (from re-enactment experience) that I would replace them if I could and regard them as necessary.

Trebian

Thanks lads. They are coming along nicely with a mixture of bonnets, hats and a few helmets. I must have had the figures Essex 15mm for about 30 years. I'm getting ready for Brent Oman's forthcoming ECW rules.

Does anyone know what colours they carried?

About the 10th reply down has a description of the flag for newcastle colours:

TMP link

also in Osprey. men-at-arms series "The English Civil War Armies" on plate G:

figure I is listed as "Ensign, Lamplughs Regiment of foot". According to the write up this colour was one captured at Marston Moor, and shows A " cross black potonce on a yellow field as well as a cross of st, George in the upper canton"

Here is an image of the flag described in the write up and plate:

As fir the gloves, I can find nothing in my references for gloves "supplied" I would think that some sort of finger knuckle protection would be of benefit so some might have others might not.

Thanks for that it is the one I will use. Some folk seem to favour red with 4 red crosses in white running diagonal from the St George's canton. Again based on captured colours.

I find this a fascinating question. The type I like to see on TMP. So I can learn more.

In regards of pikes for that era and earlier, would the wood shaft have been rough rather than smooth as modern poles are?
It seems that rough surfaces would have been easier to grasp. Thus reducing the need for gloves.

I did a little digging and….

Gloves! Its from a Hexham's text. Shows the Dutch had some influence.

I don't know the answer Rudy but it occurs to me that crushed knuckles would make you drop your pike so I'm thinking all round protection.

@RudyNelson: All I can find in my library about the state of the pike shaft is in Osprey Elite series 25 "soldiers of the English Civil War 1" on page 22 "made of ggod ash, 16 feet long"…"the staves to be coloured with aquafortis"

Wikipedia says this about aquafortis: " It was mixed with oil of vitriol and used to stain canes to appear like a tortoise shell by applying several coats while the cane is over hot coals. The canes were then given a gloss with a little soft wax and a dry cloth."
So perhaps this process would make the staves smoother? Anyone want to wade in on this?

@Oh B*gger…The colour shown in the plate was for the first captain…I am sure that the other colours with the diagonal crosses are perhaps from things like the majors and colonels and such. All are equally acceptable I am sure. Best of luck with this endeavour..please post picis when they are ready for battle!

I'm following the logic Smolders and photos will be taken. Ishould finish the musketeers and command this weekend. Eight bases in all.

Now I'm wondering whether to go for 3 to a base for the muskets or 4 per base like the pike.

Last I picked up on the subject was that there are no extant commission, warrants or receipts for hand coverings of any sort for either side. My conclusion would be that none were issued, although that does not preclude individuals acquiring them.

I'm afraid Hexham is of dubious authority in this case as the illustrations are rip-offs of de Gheyn which reflects an idealised Dutch soldier's kit from the 1620s and is not much use for English soldiers two decades later.

As for Lamplugh's colour, by all means use it, but I would be careful over its provenance.

link

Gives a bit more background.

Thanks, yeah I knew it was contested but they needed a flag and given that it was either Lamplugh's or the red one I thought yellow looked better. Not exactly rigorous research I know.

The gloves thing is intriguing. Clearly the Dutch thought them desirable but for most pikemen maybe it was more nice if you can get them. Too late for my Whitecoats though gloves to man for the pikemen and officers.

No big surprise that there are contradicting and suspicious claims about anything from this period, thats why I always go with the, "I like it I'll use it approach" to flags. If someone asks what regiment that is I usually say something along the lines of Smolders' regiment in Russet, raised at smolderton just prior to the battle of mylivingroomton Moore!-)