"Osprey Fighting Sail" Topic

Just wondering if the reference sheet and counters are going to be available for download?

They used to have a page that had all their downloads for their rules. Even then it was very hard to find and since they've redesigned their website it seems to be gone entirely.

Whats you're take on these rules David?

I haven't had a chance to play them yet but they look like fun, very much in the Warhammer Trafalgar vein but better executed. A few things that have me scratching my head (it does appear that you can sail into the wind relatively easily, but I might be reading the rules wrong). Hoping to give them a try next weekend, depending on how things go towards the end of the week.

When we played last Sunday we did a mutiplayer game but with only 300 pts to learn… one of our captains sailed into the wind and we lost his ship of the line for the rest of the engagement while he struggled through discipline tests to fix the situation…

What happned was that he executed a tacking maneuver but didn't pay attention to his ending postion !… I would not recommend doing that :)

My feeling was exactly the same, Trafalgar rules better executed… glad to be in agreement with more renowned naval gamers, me being a mor amateurish naval gamer :)

It seems that some paper work is missing, or is it just a piece of paper for ship and fleet morale.
Be safe
Rory

Not sure I follow, what is missing ? We used counters on the side of the table to keep track of morale loss, like we do with other victory pts system or equivalent…

I don't see anything missing, though having the QRS as a pdf download would certainly be convenient…

A few things that have me scratching my head (it does appear that you can sail into the wind relatively easily, but I might be reading the rules wrong).

I got that impression too (granted, that was from a brief reading in the hobbyshop; haven't picked them up yet). I do hope I was wrong in that.

"… me being a more amateurish naval gamer."

Do you mean there are PROFESSIONAL wargamers?

Thanks all. David would be particularly interested in a brief review of these from you when you can get to it if you'd be so kind…

Doesn't appear to be any (yet) but all the rules apart from Sail and Black Ops (the most recent) have downloadable resources so I would expect them at some point.

FYI Steve the downloads are cunning hidden under the "Gaming Resources" link at the bottom of the left menu of the wargames Rules page:

link

According to the Contents page of "Fighting Sail", the Reference sheet should be p.60, and the Counters, p.62.

well if you are a wargamer and rules developer maybe there is some kind of professionalism involved :)

the qrs is certainly there, I belive the request was to get the download for ease of use… we simply did copies from the one in the book…

The counters and QRS are there now :)
Cheers for the link Zippee

Here are the direct links to the downloads:

QRS link

Counters
link

FAQ should be ready in a few days. Enjoy!

Thanks Ryan :)

Will these rules be suitable for the Great Lake naval battles of 1812?

Thanks Ryan and Zippee, I have them now down-loaded.
Ryan please let us know when and where to find the F&Q.
I have started to re-read the rules with a new light after NOW understanding the sail points.
Be safe
Rory

Here's my first stab at the FAQ, can you guys read it through and let me know if I've missed anything?

The Sailing Phase

Q: When a ship does a turn, it moves 2", then another 2" as part of the turn?
A: No. It moves 2", and them may turn on the spot, using its stern as the axis point. The diagrams at the top right of page 13 are showing a ship during an entire maneuver, not just the turn portion.

Q: Does diagram 4 at the bottom of page 13 really show a ship spending only 4 sailing points?
A: No. That diagram has the ship erroneously lining up its bow with the turning template before moving, causing the ship to move 4" before its turn. This is incorrect – the ship moves 2" before it turns.

Q: If a ship has both a damage token and an anchor token, can it test to remove both of them in the same sailing phase?
A: No. A ship can only test once per turn to remove a damage or an anchor token. Furthermore, it cannot test to remove anchor tokens until it has successfully removed all of its damage tokens. Likewise, a ship with more than one damage token can only make a single test to remove one of them each turn.

Q: Can a ship attempt an evasive maneuver to avoid being entangled even if that ship has already moved this turn?
A: Yes.

Q: What happens when a ship needs to do an evasive maneuver but there is no room for it to do so?
A: In this case, the ship cannot evade.

Q: Do evasive maneuvers cost sailing points?
A: No.

The Cannon Phase

Q: Once a ship has taken damage equal to its hull stat, do I still lose morale when that ship suffers damage?
A: Yes. Over the course of the game, there is no limit to how much morale you can lose from a single ship – the limit of morale loss only applies to a single cannon attack (or the combined attack of a squadron), and is equal to the ship's hull rating.

Q: Do dice that cause explosions also count as hits themselves?
A: Yes. Once you've rolled your gunnery dice, count up the number of hits. Then count up how many explosions you rolled, and roll that many more dice. Add any hits scored by these dice to your original hit total.

Ryan,
Yes I understand the above. What paper work do you use to keep records of the lost of morale from the fleets and ships?
Be safe
Rory

You don't need to keep track of how much morale each ship has lost you, only the grand total matters. I use a piece of paper or sometimes a nearby white board.

Thanks Ryan,
As I'm on a roll. You are Reaching, you do a move and turn so the ship is now Running. Can you now do a Wear (Sharp turn) if you have the sailing points? Can she do the 2nd move (Wear) from the running point if she started her moving from Reaching?
Thanks
be safe
Rory

While a ship's attitude towards the wind doesn't change how many sailing points it gets throughout a phase, wearing and tacking cannot be done while the ship is running. This means that if you are in the middle of spending sailing points and find yourself running, wearing and tacking are not options until you are no longer running.

Wow… major detail there .. good catch Rory… I though I only looked at attitude at the start of the phase..

So at start of phase I roll for sailing points but then as I execute the attitude matters in each step…

Great info..don't know how I missed this…

thanks guys..
Francisco

I see the source of my error… last sentence of page 12 indictates that attitude is only checked at the start of the turn… though I understand now that this was meant only for sailing pts computation but we assumed it was "only" once… probably something to add in your Q&A.. I can see how that would work better now…

quick extension om that… only running prevents tight turns? close hauled and into the wind you can still do them if you have the sailing points ?

Question on repairs.

After sailing phase you can roll off damage with a discipline test. However, it is not noted in the QRS. Shouldn't this be an added step or phase after sail movement?

May run Trafalgar soon with these rules to try them out.

Dan

and adding to Dan's question on repairs/disciplines… if on the movement phase the ship accumulates an anchor token right after the end of the movement phase the discipline tret and be attempted, correct ? ( is there is no requirement to wait till next turn or similar)

Another question. Confusion between page 19 example and p24 about morale. Do damage tokens per p24 count against morale or do hits as insinuated in p19'example?

Second question. If damage is rolled off at the end of the sailing phase with a discipline test, is that damage point removed from the fleet morale tally? P25 insinuates it isn't removed.

So many questions in so short a time doesn't bode well for the rules as they stand then?

Not really. The rules play great and these question are clarifying points that sometimes people interpret in different ways, none of these issue prevent you from playing the game nor do they dramatically change the way the game plays.

I have asked a bunch of the questions and I usually spend the first games of any rules collecting all kinds of questions but they usually go in the rules forum, in this case we are just using tmp.

These rules are a really fun set for large actions and we are playing them again today, and certainly nothing bad should be implied by the fact that we are just clearing alternative interpretations.

regards,
Francisco

No! Billyfish,
This shows we are very interested in the rules. I love the top down idea from fleet to ships, and not ship to fleet which most rules do. All the questions show the rules are not ones to read and throw onto the shelf, but to read and use. I am looking forward to playing them. Alas I do not know when I will be able to play them. No players around to try them with.
I'm going to try sailing some ships around a table, just to see how the rules work. This is a frist for me.
The idea of large fleet game and little paper-work tick a lot of boxes for me.
Do not let the Billyfish's in this world put you off Ryan.
I do miss the Swedes and Turks fleet lists. This can be sorted out by me in house-rules or by you in the future. This is a small point.
Your Q.& A. only add to the rules not change them, All I can say is "Thank you, Ryan"
Be safe
Rory

Great game at the club today, 9 players 300 points per person. Loads of fun and the rules were picked up quickly by all within a couple of turns.

We used all the revised/clarified rules gleaned from this forum but one thing we came across was, when a ship strikes it is removed from play…is there a reason for this? The consensus is it would just stay there and be an obstacle for line of sight rather than teleport out? Were we missing anything? As it happened the struck ship was in a channel between an island and a sand bar sio it may have had an impact on the game were it removed.

link
for a few pictures, have to say it looked impressive to me, maybe I am biased though :)

Thanks
Pete

Pete,
Would love to see your photos. But I'm not on facebook.
Be safe
Rory

ah will try and work out some other way :/

try this ?

link

@devsdoc: as with most rules, there's quite a difference between just reading them and actually trying to PLAY them.

The general problem with rules is that the author knows what he means, but it's not alwys the case that his would be players do. Posing questions about rules (i.e. because they are not fully understood by the reader)seems to be a symptom of this.

I am cetainly not trying to "put Ryan off". But the trend of the posts above seems to imply he might try to write his rules with a little more clarity. At present, it seems some people are having difficulty getting past the movement phase of the game.

I think you are getting this misconception from reading the questions.
for example I like FOG, fields of glory ancients, and it is probably one of the most carefully written rules out there, yet the Q&A is extensive.

The more people play systems the more it is open to different interpretations.

The movement issue was the result of the picture examples and that is unfortunate, I got it right from the get go because I read the rules and skipped the picture examples and got a reasonable understanding of it.

Honestly, this is a very good system for large fleet action. I particularly like the fact that ships can strike before being fully out of combat and that fleet morale tends to be the resolving factors for the games I played. Other fleet action rules I tried tend to go for a last ship standing resolution that I really dislike.

I'll post pictures from our games yesterday.

I think it would be sad if people get discouraged from asking question due to fear of poor implications for the author. Not saying that this was you intention but it could be a consequence.

I can tell you I've bougt plenty of rules in the past that I hated or could not figure out what they meant, and in those I ask 0 questions :)

Francisco

They added downloads to

link

Pete, fantastic pictures !

Thanks Pete,
Got the photos. Very nice indeed.
Be safe
Rory

Thanks guys. Rory are you in Dorset ?

I haven't been put off, no worries there! I'll be back on later today to answer some questions.

Those were great pictures, I'm glad you guys had so much fun with the game!!

Thanks Ryan,

It was indeed fun. Hoping, maybe, to run a small 1 or 2 day competition at Beachhead 2016 early next year if there is enough interest.

SeldonH:

Only running prevents tight turns.

If a ship gets an anchor token during the sailing phase, it can indeed test to remove it, assuming it has no damage tokens.

Dantheman:

Damage tokens do not cause morale loss. Fleet morale is lost when a ship is hit by cannon fire, sunk, strikes her colors, captured, or is rammed. Damage tokens are an effect of cannon hits, but do not cause morale loss on their own.

Bubblegums:

AWESOME PICTURES!!

Ships that are captured should indeed be replaced with wreckage tokens. That was a complete mistake on my part. The top of page 27, under wreckage, should read "when a ship is sunk, captured, or strikes its colours…" Good catch!

So page 19 is correct and page 24 a typo.. good..

follow up on that..

A hull 7 ship gets 8 unsaved hits.. of course he is done since he got 5 unsaved.. morale question.. does his fleet loose:

a ) 7 morale ( from the unsaved hits up to the hull ) + 7 (for a hull 7 ship sinking) = 14

or

b) only 7 because he sank and the total from the cannon fire ( hits plus sinking cannot exceed the hull )

We've been doing a)…

This is really a fun system and lots of tactical options to try fleet tactics.. We got a hold of fleet tactics articles and we've been trying different things :)

We've been using old glory 1/2400 and using all distances in the rules times 0.75

cheers

Francisco

Francisco: A is correct – you guys had it right. Basically, whenever a ship is removed from play for any reason, its fleet loses fleet morale equal to the ship's hull stat.

Pete – where did you get those awesome etched wood tokens?

Ryan

Regarding unsaved hits. A ship morale loss cannot exceed its hull number. Is that per game or per cannonade?

I asked that before… it's per cannonade.

see here, answer to question number two

TMP link

cheers
Francisco

Got it!

Thanks Francisco. Now to play a game!