"R. Lee Ermey On Military and the Media" Topic

Actor and former Marine drill instructor R. Lee Ermey was honored at the GI Film Festival 2015 with this year's Memorable Military Movie Character award for his award-winning portrayal of Gunnery Sgt. Hartman in the 1987 movie Full Metal Jacket.

Prior to accepting his award at the Angelika Film Center in Fairfax, Va., on Saturday, Ermey spoke to USNI News about how the military and its image in the media has changed since his time in the Marine Corps. Ermey served in the Marine Corps for 11 years, including a 1968 deployment to Vietnam…

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Matter of fact, that was the era when, when you came back from war, they spit on you. That was the hippie generation though.

Matter of *actual* fact, while there probably were isolated incidents in which returning vets were spit on, the idea that, as a matter of routine, "when you came back from war, they spit on you" has been thoroughly debunked. It's a vile myth perpetrated and perpetuated by certain segments of society to portray anti-war protesters (as Ermey says, "That was the hippie generation") as somehow less than human.

See The Spitting Image by Jerry Lembcke: link

Thanks for a most interesting read the both of you

Was on flights w/ him to and from D.C. Memorial Day weekend. (No, I didn't get to sit with him.) Scowled like h e l l at me when I did a double-take because I wasn't sure that I recognized him. Was surprised that he was leaving D.C. early in the morning of Memorial Day--figured he would be at some ceremonies.

Enough name-dropping for one morning.

No, Ermey was right. When soldiers arrived at the Oakland Army Base upon their return from Viet Nam the local protestors were throwing dog feces at them. Wasn't routine but was far from isolated. This is why there has been such a push to support the troops in every war since.

Not going to drop low for the bait…

As a matter of actual fact, I was walking in uniform across campus at the University of Washington when I was spit at by one guy and given a "Heil Hitler!", complete with salute, by another. That was in 1998. The UW always seemed to want to be another Berkeley.

I always liked R. Lee ! Go Gunny ! Javelin … The same thing happened to me while a Cadet in '77 … but they didn't get close enough to spit … I don't know who was luckier ?

I walked across campus at Penn State in uniform often, and never encountered a single wad of spit. My roomate at the time was a bleepable type of person, but he was the only one I encountered…

Damon.

Nor will I, Mardaddy.

When soldiers arrived at the Oakland Army Base upon their return from Viet Nam the local protestors were throwing dog feces at them.

Another urban legend. Produce a citation other than, "This one guy told me . . ." or the movie Hamburger Hill

That was in 1998.

So, almost 25 years post-Vietnam, and still an isolated incident.

but they didn't get close enough to spit

So, again, no spit. And in '77 you were more likely to run into a disco dude than a hippie.

Look, guys, I'm not saying that returning troops weren't disrespected in a lot of ways when they came home from Vietnam, but the idea of returning vets running a gauntlet of spitting hippies is an urban legend (unless you consider Rambo a documentary).

I am glad that Ermey mentioned the problems at the VA, but only barely in passing. I'd rather see him pushing that issue than repeating the other.

So, again, no spit. And in '77 you were more likely to run into a disco dude than a hippie.

Pretty sure they were not hippies but more like students … I'm pretty sure I'm not delusional … I remember the incident. Plus it was not the only time students took exception to men and women on campus being in uniform. Many at that time still held the military with ill-will.

All of which I agree with.

Bill's original post links to Ermey's comment regarding hippies during the Vietnam era, not students in general, and not in any other era. And "taking exception" to men and women in uniform is hardly the same as spitting on them.

My point is that Ermey is repeating a fully debunked and *very* divisive urban legend, not that some people did (and some still do) hold men and women in the military in low regard.

not that some people did (and some still do) hold men and women in the military in low regard.

Very true …

My point is that Ermey is repeating a fully debunked and *very* divisive urban legend, not that some people did (and some still do) hold men and women in the military in low regard.

If it did happen on occasion (and I've spoken with several Vietnam era vets who have similar stories) how is it an "urban legend"? That would imply that the who thing is fictional and it never occurred at all. Did it happen to every returning serviceman, or even the majority? Of course not, and I don't think anyone has ever made that broad of a claim. But it did occur.

How old are you guys? Were you there? I was. And the harrasment (including spitting) was everywhere.

Me ? I was a Cadet from '75-'79. Most of my ROTC instructors had at least one tour. I learned a lot from them. Used many of those lessons while on active duty '79-'90. Thank you for your service 49.

Read for comprehension.

Isolated incidents, yes.

Matter of routine, no.

"When you came back from war, they spit on you," no.

The urban legend isn't that some vets were spit on, it's that it happened to many vets. Fact is, it didn't. 2.7 million Americans served in Vietnam. Even accepting every story about being spit on at face value, that's, what, 100 incidents? A dozen a year?

The spitting still shouldn't have happened at all, but it didn't become part of "common knowledge" about the war until well after it ended, especially after it was mentioned in Rambo.

My stepsister slept with quite a few returning GIs because she felt that because they had given their all that she should reciprocate in some way. I should add that she was one of those 'sub-human hippies' that R. Lee and others love to bash.

"Matter of *actual* fact, while there probably were isolated incidents in which returning vets were spit on, the idea that, as a matter of routine, "when you came back from war, they spit on you" has been thoroughly debunked. It's a vile myth perpetrated and perpetuated by certain segments of society to portray anti-war protesters (as Ermey says, "That was the hippie generation") as somehow less than human."

Oddly enough my father, and uncle both had it happen to them. I guess those were 'isolated incidents' or they were lying. I think I'll trust them over someone who claims there wasn't a single documented case of it happening.

Read for comprehension: No one "claims there wasn't a single documented case of it happening." SMH

No one "claims there wasn't a single documented case of it happening."

Well no one aside from ,apparently, that book you linked to.

Again "urban myth" would tend to indicate that the whole phenomenon was fictional. It's certainly not a term I would have used.

I find it troubling that you seem as if you want to minimize the attacks, calling them an "urban legend", poo-pooing the numbers and citing what is apparently an extremely biased and flawed book to support your claim. But you do state that they never should have happened. So I guess you should get credit for that…..

Finally, that "read for comprehension" jab comes across as a bit insulting. Can you please lay off that?

Frankly, rather than insisting that one "read for comprehension," one should write for comprehension.

Urban myths, as such, are difficult, if not impossible, to verify.

If an incident has happened, it's no longer in myth territory. It may have been an isolated incident, but it really isn't "mythic."

I admit that I used imprecise language. I used the vernacular "no one claims" to mean "I don't claim." My mistake for not being more precise.

The "urban legend" or "mythic" aspect is not that the spitting didn't happen, but that it happened as a matter of routine.

If you don't like the terms "urban legend" and "myth," pick another.

And I'll stop asking others to read for comprehension when they comment on what I actually wrote and not what they want me to have written. No offense is intended.

I have no doubt that it happened but I do think the frequency is, in some ways, irrelevent. By that I mean relative to the number who served it was almost certainly a tiny, tiny fraction of a percent who experienced it. One can also apply the same analysis to claims that rape and brutal war crimes/torture were rampant in Iraq and Afghanistan. Yes, those things happened too, but just as most Vietnam protesters supported the troops but opposed the war the vast, vast majority of troops serve with honor and DON'T commit crimes. The problem in both instances is that the outliers get our attention. It's why we read newspapers.

But there is a danger to "stabbed in the back" propaganda tactics wrt public policy and political leaders' accountibility.

It's easy for leaders and pundits who get things like war spectacularly wrong to blame those who oppose them by citing things like this. "If only some troops weren't spit on then the North Vietnamese would have stopped fighting". Or "If only we could have bombed Iraqi civilians and Afghan civilians into the stone age then other Iraqis and other Afhans would have accepted our appointed overlords." That's just silly and history proves it wrong (ask the Russians about the success of unrestricted bombing of Afghan villages).

Even now we have politicians vying for our most senior leadership position trying to tell us that EVERYONE got the decision to invade Iraq wrong based on "faulty intel" when dozens of members of congress and dozens of media reports and people within the intel community said the intel was bad or corrupted.

By blaming Vietnam era "hippies" and the modern "evil liberal media" those responsible for stupid military decisions absolve themselves of responsibility. And that includes both civilian leadership AND senior military leadership. For example, if civilian leaders make such god awful demands on war strategy where are the hundreds or thousands of professional officers resigning their commisions in protest? The fact is most go along to get along with an eye on post-career double dipping as contractors and don't rock the boat.

So if you find yourself getting hot under the collar about stories of hippies spitting on soldiers then consider this: which is more morally reprehensible…spitting on a soldier or sending him to war based on trumped up rationale and then not providing him with all of the support he needs to win in terms of total numbers of troops needed for success, proper gear, and reasonable/achievable/clear political-military objectives?

Here in US we just spent the last decade+ sending troops off to war in insufficient numbers to fight in support of corrupt regimes without clear and achievable political-military goals. And when they come back we tell them that Paris Hilton needs a tax break so we can't properly fund his healthcare, need to raise his taxes as a blue collar worker, and put him in competition with Malaysian slave labor to improve shareholder value. Thank you for your service, now shut up and vote agaisnt your own economic interests because…you know the usual code words inserted at that point.

Stabbed in the back PR worked in the 30s and it works now too.

jpattern2 and VIS have summed up the issue well.

It's ironic we want to support the troops by getting upset about alleged spitting incidents, and saying things like "Thank you for your service" and picking up checks in restaurants, yet the American people as a whole don't vote for representatives who fund health care and appropriate veterans' benefits.

Took the words out of my mouth, tuscaloosa.

This is the kind of thing that Ermey should be talking about: link

Combat veteran arrested for threatening VA. Sounds open-and-shut, but it's not. Read the article, then ask yourself why getting help for guys like him isn't an ongoing topic of conversation and a higher priority for those who "support the troops" with little more than yellow ribbon car magnets.

I think it''s a bit more widespread than the wiki seems to say. I remember two of my NCOs, like E7s at the time, telling us grunts "bed time stories" and that got brought up.

Both of them said it happened to them round '70 or so. This would have been in '91 when I heard about this. I don't remember hearing about it in the Rambo movies, but then again, I didn't/don't really care for those movies.

My personal experience has been quite different. I generally get thanked for my service, even by those who are "liberal" or oppose the wars that we've been in lately. Times change I guess.

Update on Ryan Broderick's case: link

He pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor: assaulting or intimidating a government employee. The charge carries a sentence of up to one year in prison, but I hope he gets time served and probation, and the help he desperately needs – and wants.

If you want guys like him to get help from the VA, then vote for Congressmen who put their votes where it counts (not just talk!) as far as helping the VA. Hope is not a plan.

Exactly. Vote intelligently, and call and write your US Senators and Congressional Representatives. I have.