"Destroy, Defeat or Minimize the Islamic State?" Topic
15 Posts
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Tango01 | 27 May 2015 10:36 p.m. PST |
"During World War II, Germany, Italy and Japan had definitive links between their respective armed forces, governments and ideologies. Most believe that the defeat of the German, Italian and Japanese armed forces began a chain of events that led to the destruction of their government and ideology. But were these ideologies really destroyed? In early 2015, nearly 70 years after the end of World War II, a simple internet search brings you to websites that attempt to advance Nazism, note the rise of Facism and describe modern-day Japan debating its identity while reflecting upon the actions it took during World War II. Rather than saying that these ideologies were destroyed, I submit that while the German, Italian and Japanese armed forces were defeated and their governments destroyed, their ideologies were only minimized. To illustrate the effort required to minimize an ideology, between 1941 and 1945 the United States had 16,112,566 military members, of which 405,399 died (291,557 in battle), and 670,846 were wounded. If the combined efforts of the United States and its Allies during World War II were unable to destroy a set of ideologies, why then does the Coalition assembled against the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL), and their political leaders, think that they can "degrade and ultimately destroy" or "degrade and ultimately defeat" ISIL with significantly less commitment than World War II?…" Full article here link Amicalement Armand |
Mako11 | 27 May 2015 11:12 p.m. PST |
It's just smoke and mirrors, mate…… AKA (also known as) "a dog and pony show" here in "the States", usually rolled out to distract the masses, and make it look like something is being done, when it isn't. |
Patrick R | 28 May 2015 3:37 a.m. PST |
My hypothesis is that neither fascism or nazism had deeply rooted in the public consciousness, despite what the propaganda told people to believe. The Germans and Italians had known that things had been different in previous centuries. Once things went pear-shaped they dropped the idology faster than a pair of pants with a serious bout of explosive diarrhea. Once German cities were turned to ruins, people knew the game was up and only die-hards kept the faith. Japan was different in that the ideology was framed inside the institution of the Emperor, a figure of absolute authority. Japan had been quite liberal in the early 1900's and the rise of militarism happened in the 1920's. When the Emperor gave the order to surrender Japan collectively bowed and made a 180°. Daesh is rooted in Islam's religious, political and social structures, which due to how the beliefs are structured (perfect, final revelation of god etc) means that there they will always get the benefit of the doubt (maybe they are sent by god …) from many muslims. So this ideology may be very hard to root out as there is no "sweet spot" to lay waste to and cause a complete breakdown in belief nor is there a central authority to disavow them in the eyes of the rest of islam. |
RavenscraftCybernetics | 28 May 2015 5:12 a.m. PST |
no tolerance for the intolerant. |
Stryderg | 28 May 2015 6:51 a.m. PST |
The 'sweet spot' that Patrick R mentions is the kids. March into an area, scoop up every kid under the age of 4, teach them something different, relocate back 'home' at age 18. Repeat every 3-4 years. Wildly expensive, requiring a generational commitment, and going to attract the ire of pretty much everyone. So basically a non-starter. There are historical precedents, though. Herod tried something similar with the Jews, failed. The Turks had the Janissaries (circa 1400's), I don't think that worked as planned, either. And no, I'm not advocating this plan (I find it immoral and unworkable), just throwing it out there as an example of how hard it would be to wipe out an ideology. |
Legion 4 | 28 May 2015 9:00 a.m. PST |
All those members of Daesh, AQ, etc., male or female that are not killed out right. If the highly unlikely happens and some/few become prisoners … They can spend out the remains of their miserable existance in a nice tropical paradise known as Gitmo. Not quite the "Paradise" you hoping for huh, DaeshBag ? |
Generalstoner49 | 28 May 2015 9:46 a.m. PST |
You don't fight a war to degrade or defeat an enemies capabilities. You fight to destroy them. It may seem harsh to say but you just don't kill their troops, you kill their capacity to wage war, destroy their capabilities to train for war, destroy their ability to supply themselves. |
doug redshirt | 28 May 2015 10:42 a.m. PST |
On the bright side a thousand years from now none of us will care. |
paulgenna | 28 May 2015 11:05 a.m. PST |
I think the difference is the religious aspect. We do not have a single country that we need to fight. You have a religion that is growing tremendously that helping to recruit kids to attack their enemy. In WWII we did not fight a religion we fought a dictator. |
Lou from BSM | 28 May 2015 3:31 p.m. PST |
Western democracies will not do what needs to be done in order to ensure the safety of future generations. It is a sad reality that this problem will persist for generations to come because the current generation lacks the intestinal fortitude to do what will ultimately be viewed as a necessity. |
mandt2 | 28 May 2015 10:11 p.m. PST |
I agree with Lou. Anybody here prepared to go over there to fight? Too old? How bout your sons and daughters? Are you willing to send them to fight ISIL? Unless we are prepared to do that, and to commit genocide, we cannot beat them. |
jpattern2 | 29 May 2015 5:15 a.m. PST |
Minimize and contain. Flood them with Western culture. |
Legion 4 | 29 May 2015 10:45 a.m. PST |
It is a sad reality that this problem will persist for generations to come because the current generation lacks the intestinal fortitude to do what will ultimately be viewed as a necessity. Very true … until the Western World commits itself to supporting total war against radical islam in all forms. Which means much collateral damage, death and destruction, etc. … something that many see as a worse option than Daesh, AQ, etc. running rampant … well unfortunatly … that's your answer. Of course at the same time. I'm not real crazy about sending massive mounts of Infidel troops back … again … on the ground to fight an islamo-civil war. |
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