Old Peculiar | 26 May 2015 12:39 p.m. PST |
Just seen the pics of the 1810-14 Saxons, and think the shakoes look a little low. Or is it just me? |
Esquire | 26 May 2015 12:48 p.m. PST |
Unfortunately I agree. I don't sculpt and thank any person who serves this strange hobby -- but yes, the shakos seem too squat compared to other castings and other images I have seen. Blue Moon is not my scale, but very good figures it appears. |
Knob | 26 May 2015 12:52 p.m. PST |
I don't know. I can barely see any details on 15mm sitting at the game table from 3-4 feet away…. |
marshalGreg | 26 May 2015 1:22 p.m. PST |
Yes but you can tell they are French legere from Line at 3-4 feet. Can't say the same for 6mm or 3mm, even though they look more realistic as a formation with so many to a stand. Yes I too have been concern with many of the sculps. Because of that I have a limit qty of BM. It brings up a question is there adequate Check and balance in place. I know a gentleman who sells ACW figs and he checks each and requests correction to the proofs, when he does not see it historically adequate before the launch. Just saying… MG |
Miniatureships | 26 May 2015 3:15 p.m. PST |
By the time you get 15/18mm figures, are you really going to be seeing much of a size difference in shakoes? I know the sculptor who does the Blue Moon Napoleonics, and he is a person that spends his time doing the research and focusing on the minor details. |
marshalGreg | 27 May 2015 6:56 a.m. PST |
@Miniatureships I was not able to use my Russian Grenadiers due to "similar differences" that made them not work for me with my current mix and since rained in my purchase of the BM items. I think am pretty tolerant. My Grenadier Div has old OG15mm, BH and AB units. A pretty good spectrum! When Victrix, Perry, Foundry, westphia( name?… the company the focuses on the 28mm Saxon 1812 with the great vehicles) the original OG15mm, BH, AB all seem to be similar in shako size/style/proportion and the BM are very different… that says something. His style seems to go in a path that people are finding not to their liking. So is it his style, his resources or simple errors… but something is different, it is not working for some of us, and thus we are disappointed & hope it stops! MG |
Old Glory | 27 May 2015 11:15 a.m. PST |
Well, "you can make some of the people happy some of the time, but not all of the people happy all of the time". The BM Napoleonics do very well in sells (why else would I continue)so there must be enough "people who are finding them to there liking" --- I have been a Napoleonic gamer,reader,follower for years and know the stuff-- I examine the figures before production and they all stand as they are. regards Russ Dunaway |
Old Peculiar | 27 May 2015 11:23 a.m. PST |
When I asked the question it was on the basis that I was rather suprised. I have purchased a number of BM units, and generally love their work. Which is why I was taken aback by the squat look of these shakoes. And does it matter in this scale? Maybe not for some, but the detail when photographed looks odd! |
Old Glory | 27 May 2015 11:52 a.m. PST |
I was not attempting to be snarky -- I looked at them and whether they are short by a hair or not I just do not see it? If others do all I can say is I am sorry. We try. regards Russ Dunaway |
marshalGreg | 27 May 2015 1:10 p.m. PST |
Russ, No one is bad mouthing the product, just indicating disappointment that things not to their liking continues or is surprised that it is not what they had expected, from your team. This is the forum to make such inquiries and get a response that explains why or supports that change is warranted and will be chosen to be taken. It is good that there is enough others who do not see it the same as some of us, to achieve healthy sells. I still buy BM, just less than I would have. "whether they are short by a hair or not I just do not see it?"…..But come on… didn't you place a French in one hand, a saxon in the other, and compare? Just toggle between these links: Saxon BM link Saxon AB link French BM link It is a striking difference! Did the Saxon height for the 18xx pattern shako standards indicate such a striking difference from the other nations shako height? I wish I could answer that here unfortunately, I have not found such info yet but it must exist and hopefully reviewed by the designer. The BM products are not the most expensive but they are also not the least expensive so expectations are bit higher. MG |
Old Glory | 27 May 2015 1:44 p.m. PST |
"This is a forum to make such inquiries and get a response that explains why or supports ……". I totally agree and that is why, unlike many other companies I choose to get on here and respond, make comments, etc using my actual name and stating how I feel. Sometimes that may be unpopular and a person does not like the answer and I risk the "I won't buy your stuff no more" comments. In this case, like I said, no -- I just do not see any substantial difference in the shakos that would turn me off the product -- in fact we have sold 1000's of bags and never had one complaint that I recall concerning this (including the Russians). As an owner of more then 12 actual French Shakos the one thing they all have in common is that they are all various sizes, shapes, heights == not one being identical -- I am afraid these were all manufactured way before the production began. The designer used various references, including reenactor direction. If an actual life size shako is a full three inchs taller then another = that difference in a 18mm figure would be less then 3 quarters of a mm. We produce 1000's of new sculpts a year -- far more then anyone else -- we do our best and are very proud of the product we release -- do not claim perfection, but do are best. Regards Russ Dunaway |
Miniatureships | 27 May 2015 4:59 p.m. PST |
What interest me about the AB picture is that it is off two different figures, which look to be a pompom difference in height. Even the Shakos look different in height. Am I complaining? No, because on the table I am not sure how much it would matter. I think the same might be said for the BM shako. Once painted, in it's own unit, would it matter? A side note, I like my armies to units made up from different manufactures. This allows me a greater ability to move units around the board without having to either lift them up or try and read some label along the back edge. |
Knob | 27 May 2015 6:54 p.m. PST |
Saxon Shako, looks low to me but I guess it's open to debate. I am pretty sure this is from the Osprey, Napoleon's Allies. |
Eclipsing Binaries | 28 May 2015 2:06 a.m. PST |
I just want to say that I really like Blue Moon, both their figures and their output. Those Saxon's do look like their shakos are shorter, but as the picture above shows, it may be that everyone else has their shakos too high!! |
Old Glory | 28 May 2015 10:04 a.m. PST |
I guess the shako above does show a much shorter hat -- like I said, I do not think there was the standardization then as there is now. Also, After looking a long time at all of the links above – if you took the shako off of the AB figure and placed it at his foot it would extend up to the knee -- still a very good figure and I would not hesitate to make units of them. regards Russ Dunaway |
deadhead | 28 May 2015 2:09 p.m. PST |
I'll be honest. As the Saxons were not at the only battle that mattered (because Blucher's lot shot them all) I know little of them (other than Garde du Corps, surely the smartest uniform of the era). I did follow this with interest and freely admit I thought their shakos far too low. I followed the discussion with interest but unconvinced. Until I saw Noss Cavalera's picture………..QED for Old Glory…… You may not like the look, but there is primary evidence that it could be right. I think this has been fascinating and hope that any criticism is seen as having been constructive. Even if, against all my convictions, proved wrong. |
Old Glory | 28 May 2015 6:33 p.m. PST |
I really do not think that with this subject there really is a "right or wrong". There are plenty of illustrations showing the later Saxons with the taller shako, often just an assumption perhaps and never contemporary? I know we can all get pictures in our heads as to what "something should look like" -- I would imagine those pictures in our head are not always correct. The comments I made in my post above concerning the actual French shakos in my personal collection and the hundreds I have viewed in museum collections still stand = the one thing that really stands out is the various sizes,shapes, tapers,etc -- regardless of the years represented. Whats right? Regards Russ Dunaway |
The Emperors Own | 28 May 2015 9:02 p.m. PST |
I agree with Russ on this one |
Eclipsing Binaries | 29 May 2015 1:58 a.m. PST |
This is a question I've pondered many times. In the Napoleonic era, and before that, how could they mass produce uniforms, headgear and other equipment for many thousands of men and keep those consistent. Plus the fact that every man in an army is a different height and build, with no person being the exact same shape as another, how could you have units looking as regimented as we portray them in our games. That's before we even factor in wear and tear and field repairs to gear. |