"Now THIS is what I'm talking about...! Oldhammer..." Topic

This is a quote from the blog of "The Realm of Zhu". It's EXACTLY what I was ranting about in my post about tournament gaming.

What this quote describes simply isn't possible within the confines of the tournament stranglehold. Which again is why I don't see any point to tournament Warhammer – at all. Still trying to figure out what the appeal is. Just don't see it. Wouldn't be able to stand tournament play for a minute.

Here's the quote from the blog:

"4. Stop worrying about game balance

As the Spartans will tell you, warfare has never been about perfectly matched armies squaring off at each other, and fantasy warfare even less so. One dark mage can flatten an entire nations army. A small band of heroic Men can overcome hordes of Orcs. Loosing and winning are not the only outcomes of playing a game. When your Orcs decide to beat the hell out of each other just before they were about to claim victory, that's part of the fun. When a single lucky dice roll turns the tide of a battle, you know the gods are on your side, that's part of the fun."

and even better:

"5. Tournaments – Just Say "No".

Oldhammer is not a sport. It's a game. And unlike Scrabble or Chess is far too reliant on random factors for player skill to really count in the win/lose/draw stakes."

AMEN!

If you read the above quote, it hits you like a brick in the face just how restricting and choking tournament gaming is. Suffocating is more like it.

Does tournament Warhammer not kill and destroy what makes fantasy gaming enjoyable and fun in the first place? I say yes.

As someone who doesn't play or enjoy tournament rules, I have to say, why would you waste time on bagging on those who do? Shouldn't everyone who games be allowed to play the way they want to play?

I'm sure the OP's observations may be correct, but we wouldn't really know since most of us (in our club) have never bothered with Warhammer for our fantasy gaming. Except for their contribution to the available pool of (usually used) miniatures, Warhammer is completely almost completely irrelevant to us.

I do resonate with TG's point though that whether because they have been enumerated so many times, or because it's better to spend one's mental energy on the alternatives, I don't much see the point in ragging on about the faults Warhammer. Let us not forget that there are still alot of folks who enjoy power-gaming and tournaments with both iterations of the game. If they're having fun, more power to them. It's not my cup-o-tea, but I'm glad they're having a good time.

Best tourney rules for me is Mighty Armies. I don't play tourneys, but it's fun to play those rules as they are easy to pick up and play fast. What I love about Warhammer Fantasy(my preference is 6th Ed. by the way) is playing the various armies and seeing how players "interpret" their armies. I hope that makes sense…
Locally, the tourney guys for both 40K, Warhammer Fantasy, and even Warmahordes are a pretty easygoing bunch.
-Edgar

What this quote describes simply isn't possible within the confines of the tournament stranglehold. Which again is why I don't see any point to tournament Warhammer – at all. Still trying to figure out what the appeal is. Just don't see it. Wouldn't be able to stand tournament play for a minute.

Fine. You don't like Warhammer tournaments. For two days in a row you have started long winded rants (not that there's anything wrong with long winded rants) proclaiming such.
Why can't you just accept the fact that many people DO like Warhammer tournaments and don't seem to have the same issues you do?

Just saw your earlier warhammer post. This thread really seems like it would best be a continuation of that. As for this:
"Does tournament Warhammer not kill and destroy what makes fantasy gaming enjoyable and fun in the first place? I say yes."

I'm with Winston on this one. Have you noticed that there are alot of folks who find Warhammer gaming fun and enjoyable?

Generally speaking, almost any game that is a tournament game is missing a major aspect of gaming and recreating battles. Real war isn't balanced. Sometimes it is impossible to win.

Scenario based games are much better. That way, even if you are playing on the side that is clearly going to loose, there are some objectives that you can have that will give you a victory, even though you lost the battle.

Flames of War does an ok job of representing that in their tournament games by use of the different types of scenarios. Games like the fighting withdrawal gives you a chance to play different styles.

Still, even with that, the tournaments drive me crazy when I see two US armies, or two German armies fighting against each other!

In the long run, the answer is; if you don't like tournaments, then don't play tournaments.

I think that part of the "arguement" is that a vocal part of the GW/FOW community think that tournament play is the ONLY way to play. Those of us that started while White Dwarf was a DnD supplement tend to not feel the same way. Even the base scenarios in FOW seem to make sense only in Tournament mode (quartering the board, etc).

I played in a number of Grand Tournaments back in the late nineties and had a fantastic time, even winning one with my Dwarves. I haven't done a tournament since but see no reason to rage on about those that like them. It's pointless. Many who play in them get every bit as much (or more) enjoyment from the game as those who don't and are not perverting or "destroying" Warhammer in any way.

This is just another one of those "MY way is the ONLY way to play with toy soldiers!" waste of bandwidth threads…

Except that the tournament mentality is so total it's leeched into recreational play in many if not most places and most games. You can't get away from it.

Except that the tournament mentality is so total it's leeched into recreational play in many if not most places and most games. You can't get away from it.

I don't see it leeching anywhere, and am perfectly able to "get away" from it.

I do not like that style of play, so I don't play it.
Others do like it, so they do play it.

There is no conflict.

This is like one of those threads that want to ban tournaments from HMGS conventions, even though at least two hundred participate in them.
Surely, they CANNOT be enjoying themselves! They are doing it wrong!!!!

I just wish people would at some point learn to use "losing" and "loosing" correctly.

DM

Winston,
The truth is they're actually having a terrible time, they just don't know it yet. If they would just stop playing in those tournament that they think they enjoy they'd have much more fun.
;-)

I enjoyed gaming scenarios and campaigns in 40k.

But, what really got me going was the tournaments. The competition. But, in the end the imbalance and rising costs led me to leave 40k behind.

Now, I just rabidly hate GW and want nothing but the worst for them.