"Strangest Founding Father?" Topic
10 Posts
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Tango01 | 21 May 2015 10:37 p.m. PST |
"Every Founder had his "foibles," as Washington acknowledged about himself, but Charles Lee was hands down the most eccentric of the bunch. But his eccentricity did not diminish his military talents. He made mistakes (what general didn't), but at times his presence and leadership were crucial, and never more so than in October 1776 when he persuaded Washington to abandon the Manhattan death trap…" Full article here link Amicalement Armand |
Supercilius Maximus | 21 May 2015 10:53 p.m. PST |
Nice to see Lee getting a balanced review, instead of the one-sided criticism he usually gets from GW supporters. In my own readings, I've found that the French contingent in the Continental Army – La Fayette apart, for obvious reasons – were generally supportive of Lee and felt that he had been given a raw deal over the Monmouth Courthouse incident. To be fair, Lee definitely had his own agenda, vis-a-vis the politics within the higher command structure; as far as the treason allegation linked to his captivity is concerned, I strongly suspect that he was merely showing off to his captors (who were former colleagues, remember) and did not tell them anything they didn't already know, or suggest strategies that they were not already considering (as he would have known from his friends and political contacts back in Great Britain). However, he was by far the most experienced senior officer in the Continental service, and the only one who had exercised command above regimental level. Weird – and even disgusting – as his personal habits may have been, I've always felt that history has a little too quick to condemn him for simply not being George Washington. |
The Hound | 25 May 2015 12:26 p.m. PST |
Wasn't he already a Major General in Polish service before the war? |
Supercilius Maximus | 15 Jun 2015 7:51 a.m. PST |
Yes, although there's a debate over whether he actually commanded troops, or if it was more of a staff position. Either way, he was probably the most experienced of all the Continental Army officers at the start of the war. |
historygamer | 15 Jun 2015 9:35 a.m. PST |
"…and the only one who had exercised command above regimental level. " Washington command more than a regiment during the final approach to Fort Duquesne. I believe he led roughly 1/3 of the forces advancing on the French Fort (they broke up into three columns for the final approach) – including the two VA regiments along with other troops in Nov. 1758 – making that his biggest pre-Rev war command. I agree about Lee though. His real command experience is hard to decypher. I have to say though I was really impressed with Burgoyne's previous command experience in Portugal. Brunwell makes reference to this in his latest book on Washington, theorizing the Peale portrait showing an Order of March is a reference to this larger command. |
zippyfusenet | 20 Jun 2015 7:21 a.m. PST |
The pirate Hans Sprungfeld fought a personal duel with George Washington, in the course of which, Washington's wooden false teeth burst into flames. Sprungfeld later went underground as frontier patriot Jebediah Springfield, who founded the eponymous town of Springfield. No one is quite sure what state Springfield is in. That's all mighty strange. Mordecai Pishkey was a leading feather merchant of Philadelphia who sometimes fenced Hans Sprungfeld's stolen goods. The firm of Pishkey and Sons later became involved in the Indian trade, selling imported luxury plumes and feathers along the frontier and beyond. Pishkey's three sons, Henkus, Pinkus and Mahershalalhashbaz, and his daughter Ruby founded the settlement of Pishkey's Post in Sucks County. No one is quite sure what state Sucks County is in. That's all mighty strange. |
Winston Smith | 20 Jun 2015 9:20 a.m. PST |
My aunt the nun claimed John Carroll as one of our ancestors. Considering he was a Jesuit and the first Catholic Bishop of the United States, he must have gotten a papal dispensation from his vows of celibacy. That would be a strange founding father. |
Bill N | 20 Jun 2015 12:32 p.m. PST |
Perhaps she meant Charles Carroll, one of those who signed the Declaration of Independence. I knew a kid in Elementary School who claimed to be descended from him. |
Winston Smith | 21 Jun 2015 5:47 a.m. PST |
Charles was his cousin. She claimed both without seeing the irony. |
pancerni2 | 29 Jun 2015 7:40 a.m. PST |
While doing the research for the Monmouth battle in my Osprey Combat tome I had the opportunity to read the entire transcript of his courts marshal. Fascinating, if for no other reason that it illustrates, yet again, how different people, living through the same experience, can have vastly different recollections and impressions. While most of the controversy about Lee centers around the Monmouth situation his behavior prior to his capture in late 1776, just before Trenton, in my opinion is more damning. I tried to include as comprehensive a narrative concerning Lee's behavior during that period in my Trenton/Princeton Osprey campaign book. You will find no more inclusive description of his actions leading up to his capture. |
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