"How does one pronounce "Paoli"?" Topic

Hi all,

Whether the Corsican nationalist who was a patron and ultimately enemy of Bonaparte, or the Pennsylvania locale presumably named for him, where No-Flint Grey's so-called 'massacre' occurred in 1777, how does one pronounce this word?

Is it 'Pow' (as in 'powder') or 'pay-oh' (as in 'what my boss grudgingly says when he knows he's got to give me some money')?

And is it 'lee' or 'lie'?

This is bothering me, so please help.

Cheers,
Redcoat

In Wisconsin we pronounce it Pay – o – lie.

visitpaoli.com/home.html

So I'm sure it is Pow-o-Lee. ;)

In Indiana, I think it's Pay-o-Lee.

the site pronounces it Pay-o-lee

As an Italian name it is pronounced "pow-lee", with the emphasis on the first syllable.

I missed that historygamer. My friend, whose uncle lives there always pronounced it Pay – o – lie and that is how I hear it on the news.

I find that really funny.

pah-ow-lee
p'ow-lee

- with the first two syllables rather run together
- the initial "p" is a bit emphasized, and in general the stress is declining from the beginning to the end
- the "a" is short, like English pronunciation of "a" in "father"
- the "o" is like British English pronunciation of "aw" in "law".

- Sasha

In New Orleans, locals pronounce Chartres street "charters" street. So the answer is, it depends.

Well, when the man who helps run the site called me about an event, he said "pay-o-lee"

Thomas wins. That is how it is pronounced in Pa.

Warble throat mangler? I dunno…

Ask Brett Favre.

The Italian (or Corsican) pronunciation is as Alexandre (Sasha) describes it: Short consonants- PAH-OH-LI- effectively P'OW-LEE. As the name of the man for whom the tavern was named, that has to be our starting point but from there, as pronunciation has evolved through local usage- as our friend said, it depends!

For what it's worth, soldiers of the Duke of Cornwall's Light Infantry (Before their amalgamation into a 'large' regiment called the Light Infantry) were taught to pronounce the name "POW-LEE." A young man from southern Pennsylvania happened to run into a squad from the regiment on the island of Bermuda in 1954. He had grown up at Chadd's Ford, where the locals called it PAY-OH-LEE. He was given a cap badge as a souvenir and later took it as a good luck charm to Vietnam. It worked.

The Duke of Cornwall's Light Infantry (DOCLI) was formed in 1881 from the 32nd Cornwall Light Infantry and 46th South Devonshire Regiments. The 46th sported a red cap distinction, which was claimed to date from the night action near Paoli Tavern on Sept 20, 1777, worn in defiance of American threats of revenge, and was perpetuated by the DOCLI and the Light Infantry as a cap badge backing. Arguably, their choice of pronunciation was as valid as any 'local' one.

Being from the Philadelphia area, I've always heard it pronounced PAY – O – LEE

There was a tiny town about 8 miles from where I grew up in Colorado named Paoli. Pay-OH-lee

Who is this Lee, to whom everyone is paying?

Light Horse Harry… :-)

"Ask Brett Favre"

"Brett Faver"?

Even different for Corsicans.

The Duke of Cornwall's Light Infantry (DOCLI) was formed in 1881 from the 32nd Cornwall Light Infantry and 46th South Devonshire Regiments. The 46th sported a red cap distinction, which was claimed to date from the night action near Paoli Tavern on Sept 20, 1777, worn in defiance of American threats of revenge, and was perpetuated by the DOCLI and the Light Infantry as a cap badge backing. Arguably, their choice of pronunciation was as valid as any 'local' one.

The red feathers are still worn on the full dress busby, but red was lost as a cap badge backing when we all formed The Rifles in 2007.

As an aside, the battlefield is very "visitable". There is nice park and good view of the contours.

martin

Like Payola, only with a different end.
-Kle.

I played sport with a few Paolis. They pronounced it like "ravioli" but "pay" instead of "ravi" or like "pay holy" without the "h".

I think the red plume on the Rifles busby might possibly derive from the KRRC's scarlet facings and distinctions, rather than the DOCLI/46th's Paoli 'red feathers', but it's such a 's muddle with the threads of – how many regiments in the mix?- I might have got that wrong.

Oh, sweet mother of God. I live about 15 minutes from there and we don't even think about such rubbish.

"Pay-Oh-Lee"

Feel better, all?

Eric

Congratulations. You say 'potato.'

Ever heard an American pronounce Marlborough?

Paoli should be pronounced as the Corsican's pronounce it which is Pow-lee

YouTube link

Paul :)

I will poll the citizens of Wilkes Barre Pa and Barre Vermont.

I think the red plume on the Rifles busby might possibly derive from the KRRC's scarlet facings and distinctions, rather than the DOCLI/46th's Paoli 'red feathers', but it's such a Bleeped text's muddle with the threads of – how many regiments in the mix?- I might have got that wrong.

I'd understood the KRRC plume was black over red for ORs, but red for officers, but it does seem to have varied over the years. Still, choosing a solution that was common to more that one regiment would have made sense

In Paoli, Pennsylvania it is pronounced Pay-O-Lee

I wonder what those who frequented the 'Paoli' Tavern in 1777 called it?

Anyway, the answer to redcoat's original question would appear to be 'both.'

I guess it would depend on whether any Corsicans settled in the area in 1777?

The English of the day would certainly have been closer to the modern pronunciation than the Italian.

For the modern locals in the Philadelphia area it is indeed Pay-o-lee. I used to ride the Pay-o-Lee local train back and forth from Phila. some years back.

I think in part tha answer to the question of the 1777 pronunciation would lie in how those 'Sons of Liberty' who decided to name the tavern after Pasquale Paoli came first know of him, or, crucially, hear of him.

If most who first came across the Corsican patriot's name did so via newspapers and read it as PAY-OLI, then the Italianate pronunciation would have had no currency for them. That doesn't mean that the original pronuncation isn't valid, nor that there were not some in America who did pronounce it correctly.

Pay ol lee.
I have lived here for 14 years. Lol.
Tancred

The correct way of pronouncing Paoli is the way the Corsicans pronounce it. If you are fighting a battle in the US at a province called Paoli, then it should be pronounced how the Americans pronounce it, plain and simple!

It may be a bit of a pick, but it is the DCLI not DOCLI

And here is a link to answer some of the questions.

PDF link

Paul :)

It may be a bit of a pick, but it is the DCLI not DOCLI

Both abbreviations have been used, Paul. I think it changed to DCLI either during or after the Great War.

Dibble, I just have to ask…how do Americans pronounce Marlborough? I am assuming you mean as in the Duke of…?

And what is the correct way? Sorry that I hadn't given it much thought, but now I'm curious.

Bit of a pick, yes. If I chooses to abbreviate The Duke of Cornwall's Light Infantry as DOCLI in a post, that is my business.

The 'Paoli' was a pub not a province.

The paragraph in your link to the Rifles-History.pdf.- the action at Paoli:-

"The rebels swore vengeance and decreed than any British
soldier captured would be killed – after which those Regiments involved dipped their hackles into blood in order to stain them red as a mark of honour and to identify themselves as those responsible for this act – a honour which the Royal Gloucestershire Berkshire Wiltshire Light Infantry and the Light Infantry continued to maintain, etc."-

perpetuates- loosely- an apocryphal tale that dates back, arguably, to the 1830s, for which there is no contemporary evidence.In fact, the earliest form of the story appears in 'The Historical Record of the 46th South Devonshire Regiment', 1851.

'Hackles' were not worn till after the AWI and as a uniform term isn't found till the C19th.

Blood- what blood? Whose blood? When?- would have turned feathers to a sticky, smelly mess very soon.

The permission granted to the 46th Regiment in 1833 for their Light Company to wear red 'ball tufts' – from where the Paoli 'red feather' legend, arguably, originates, was not an honour but simply authority to continue a custom that allegedly dated from 1777.

In many cases, regiments cannot, unfortunately, be looked to for historical rigour in relation their traditions. These Rifles history notes are a particularly glaring example.

janner,

You notice I said 'is' the DCLI?

42flanker,

Bit of a pick, yes. If I chooses to abbreviate The Duke of Cornwall's Light Infantry as DOCLI in a post, that is my business.

Well of course it is your business, but then again It's my business (and anyone else's who read the post) if I wish to comment on it. So if you want to grumble, go ahead, you can grumble a bit more about this post too.

As for Paoli. More than just you, and the pronunciation of a pub name has been brought forward in this discussion. so I posted an example. I'm sure that people from Paoli Oklahoma, Indiana, Pennsylvania or any other place in the US, pronounce it the American way.

Yes as in Duke of

I take it that this is you participating in this contretemps where you accuse me of cut and pasting?

link

But all the same, I will also not waste time on tippi-tapping if I can lift information from elsewhere.

Paul :)

Wow, this discussion is still going! This is one of the longest threads we've had in a while. What does that say about today's TMP? Lol.

When we are done, we can discuss the correct way to say Schuylkill. :-)

janner,

You notice I said 'is' the DCLI?

I did notice that you wrote 'is', which seemed odd given that they became the SCLI in 1959, then 1 LI in 1968 etc, but decided to let it go because pedantry is not always good for the soul

Ah, "Schuylkill," great call! Being across the water I don't believe I have never heard anyon say that word out loud.

Is it SKYLL-KILL? I have wondered whether the rash of characters on US TV-, possibly as many as two, that I can think of,- called SKYLER (as spelt in the credits) derives originally from the old Dutch name SCHUYLER.

Maggie, we were once invited by Philip Morris to "come to Marlboro country", somewhere in the American west (which as a kid I always read as 'Marlboro County' – I guess there must be one).

That is MARL-BO-RO, as opposed to the quaint town of Marlborough in 'Wiltshire County, England.' Well,Ok, MAWL-BURRA.

If you have never watched a young Glaswegian trying to persuade a Hispanic girl to give sell him "A pack of ten Marlborough" at a filling station check-out in LA, you have missed out on one of the great comic moments.

Then, there is Worcester.

That's Wooster as pronounced by the locals, Wor-kester by the out of staters. Since WWI Berlin, CT has been pronounced as BERlin rather than Ber-lin. If Paoli is supposed to be pronunced Corsican fashioned then the river Thames in CT should be pronounced Tems…

In Minnesota there is the city of New Prague – pronounced by the locals as PRAY'g.

I was bewildered when watching the credits of 'Hamburger Hill' to find that the Sergeant I'd assumed to be of Polish origin, with a name like Worczestar, was in fact named 'Worcester'

Thames, CT?-

"When we are done, we can discuss the correct way to say Schuylkill."

I married a Philadelphian and despite her efforts I can't do it right. I think it is something like SKOOkul. With my accent I'd never pass for a local anyways.

If you're driving the expressway, it pronounced 'sure kill'.

I just have to ask…how do Americans pronounce Marlborough? I am assuming you mean as in the Duke of…?

As in the cigarette I'm afraid:

YouTube link