greenknight4 | 18 May 2015 8:33 a.m. PST |
There seems to be no end to battalion level and skirmish level rules but are there any out there for regimental level? Let me give my unit definitions for this question. In a battalion level game the smallest individual unit is a platoon (for example Command Decision or Spearhead). In a Skirmish game the smallest individual unit is a single man or possible a fire team (for example Bolt Action or Chain of Command. In a regimental game the smallest single unit unit is a company. Thank you |
MajorB | 18 May 2015 8:46 a.m. PST |
In a regimental game the smallest single unit unit is a company. Rapid Fire? |
donlowry | 18 May 2015 9:15 a.m. PST |
in a regimental game, the smallest unit is a regiment! |
Weasel | 18 May 2015 9:56 a.m. PST |
My "Brigade Commander" rules have company stands. link A few AAR's link link edit: I should add, they are highly abstract. They give a great game and does so fast. Under 2 hours in most cases, but some people like a lot of chrome for their tanks and stuff, and it doesn't do that at all. |
MajorB | 18 May 2015 10:18 a.m. PST |
in a regimental game, the smallest unit is a regiment! Um, no … We have this discussion from time to time on TMP. There are two schools of thought on this. One grouop says as you do that "level" defines the "smallest unit". However, the OP, myself, and I believe a majority of gamers say that "level" refers to the "level of command" that is, the size of force being commanded by the player. |
Weasel | 18 May 2015 10:25 a.m. PST |
Yeah, it's all quite confusing. I agree that it makes most sense that it's the "entire force" (plus some supports). But as others have said, some use it to define the standard unit and some use it to define what one stand represents. So with all the different definitions, Spearhead could be regimental level, battalion level or platoon level :) |
Extra Crispy | 18 May 2015 10:28 a.m. PST |
Well, to answer your question…. Blitzkrieg Commander and Panzer Korps would both work. BC is pretty "scale flexible" so units can be platoons or companies. Panzer Korps uses one stand per company but is designed for bigger battles…. |
ACWBill | 18 May 2015 10:28 a.m. PST |
Major B, this is the way I interpret the meaning as we. For instance, in Command Decision and Spearhead, your decisions are made at the battaltion level. In Spearhead, the command arrow is drawn for the battalion. Yet the smallest unit is a platoon and combat occurs at the platoon level. |
Last Hussar | 18 May 2015 10:49 a.m. PST |
BC is scale flexible because its bad at all of them. |
christot | 18 May 2015 12:16 p.m. PST |
Great war spearhead is 1 stand 1 coy |
Martin Rapier | 18 May 2015 1:10 p.m. PST |
1 stand = 1 company rules include Corps Commander, Great Battles of WW2/Drop Zone, WW2 Piquet, and of course 5Core Brigade Commander and Tims Gows NATO Brigade Commander. I would hesitate to characterise Spearhead as a battalion set though, it works best at regiment and up. |
PKay Inc | 18 May 2015 1:40 p.m. PST |
We sell Field of Battle: WW2 which uses the company as the smallest unit and smallest combat element. Maneuver elements are typically battalions, but can be regiments. Brent Piquet Inc. |
greenknight4 | 18 May 2015 1:48 p.m. PST |
Prefer a game written for that scale not one that would fit thank you all. |
greenknight4 | 18 May 2015 1:50 p.m. PST |
No to rapid Fire. Maneuver unit might be declared a company but it's breakdown is really skirmish level. |
MajorB | 18 May 2015 2:26 p.m. PST |
No to rapid Fire. Maneuver unit might be declared a company but it's breakdown is really skirmish level. Hmm … you are of course right. But there are some gamers who are less picky than others. There are tweaks that will make it play more like a company rather than 10 individual men (such as getting rid of the grenades rules) but I agree it is not to everyone's taste! |
Weasel | 18 May 2015 2:31 p.m. PST |
I kinda like Rapid Fire but it did surprise me that there's rules for throwing grenades :-) |
Yellow Admiral | 18 May 2015 2:49 p.m. PST |
Spearhead was sold as a Division level rules set, and says so right in the rules. I don't think it would work at all as a "battalion level" set – battalions in SH operate pretty much as a giant mob of platoons, without any command structure whatsoever between the platoon leaders and their colonel. I disagree that any particular command level dictates a particular level of unit as the atom of maneuver. My personal feeling matches the OP (the atom of maneuver should be units about two org levels down from the command level, e.g. company-sized stands in a regimental or brigade level game), but a rules author may pick a much lower level as the building block of units and still make it work. I don't know of any rules that specify the regiment as the command level, probably because more typical battlefield formations in the period were battalions, brigades, divisions, and flexible ad-hoc formations in between those like kampgruppen and combat commands. However, rules that claim to be brigade level ought to work as printed for gaming with regiments. A few other games I can think of that would probably adapt easily or without modification: Spearhead, Great Battles of WWII, and Field of Battle: WWII. Some other rules worth investigating: DivTac, Stonk, and TAC. I've only glanced at any of these (never played), so can't comment intelligently about the feasibility of adapting them other than to say they look promising for such an effort. - Ix |
Yellow Admiral | 18 May 2015 3:01 p.m. PST |
No to rapid Fire. Maneuver unit might be declared a company but it's breakdown is really skirmish level. LOL! Now I remember why I didn't like Rapid Fire. - Ix |
Weasel | 18 May 2015 4:40 p.m. PST |
Yellow – Ive played Spearhead with smaller units and it works okay though it's not ideal. |
BattlerBritain | 19 May 2015 2:16 a.m. PST |
One of the best set of 'rules' I've come across for Company sized stands is actually a boardgame: 'Air+Armor' by West End Games. It plays really well and is written for moderns but you could use it for WW2 as well. |
Martin Rapier | 19 May 2015 5:00 a.m. PST |
"Spearhead was sold as a Division level rules set, and says so right in the rules. " I have played a few division sized games with SH. Yes you can do it, but you will need all day. It works better at sub-divisional. |
uglyfatbloke | 19 May 2015 5:29 a.m. PST |
I'm not sure that really are a lot of company/battalion level games.We sometimes play a field-stripped version of Bolt Action and manage a company (plus support) in attack against two platoons in defence, but it's far from ideal. It has helped that we allow the attacking player to move/shoot everything from their start-line in the opening turn and the defender to have everything in 'Ambush'. After the first turn we revert to the 'draw an activation die' system. |
creativeguy | 19 May 2015 7:36 a.m. PST |
BattlerBritain, Have you tried Air & Armor for miniatures? I recently picked it up… still shrink wrapped! I am still reading through the rules but thought it might be worth a try to convert it to miniatures. |
Who asked this joker | 19 May 2015 11:00 a.m. PST |
I should think that A "Regimental Level Game" you are a regiment commander. In an American organization, You would have battalions below that and then companies below that and that would be the smallest unit you would care about. So If that is what you are looking for, Rapid Fire and Blitzkrieg commander will work. Brigade Commander should fall into this scale nicely but I only know what Weasel has told me! Another OOP option is Megablitz. I think it deals with companies as well. |
Who asked this joker | 19 May 2015 11:01 a.m. PST |
I kinda like Rapid Fire but it did surprise me that there's rules for throwing grenades :-) It is a stylized toy soldier game for those that just want to have some fun! |
creativeguy | 19 May 2015 11:48 a.m. PST |
Joker, Megablitz has battalion stands. That is a scale I like but I have never really gotten into Megablitz. Doesn't Not Quite Mechanized use company stands? |
Marc33594 | 19 May 2015 12:10 p.m. PST |
In Panzer Korps the smallest stand is a company. However the smallest maneuver unit is the battalion. Most battalions start with a core of 3 company stands to which other company stands are attached for support. |
Who asked this joker | 19 May 2015 12:24 p.m. PST |
Megablitz has battalion stands. Thanks for the clarification. J- |
BattlerBritain | 19 May 2015 1:09 p.m. PST |
creativeguy, I used 'Air+Armor' to run a campaign and did smaller scale battles on the tabletop feeding the results back in to the Campaign. But I like 'Air+Armor' so much I'm making my own set of rules for miniatures using 'Air+Armor' as the 2hr turn sequence but fitting in platoon scale rules for the tactical combat, eg Panzer Blitz for Infantry-Infantry combat and FFOT3 for the tank combat. Seems to be working. |
Who asked this joker | 19 May 2015 2:55 p.m. PST |
Another worth a look. link From Bat Cave Miniatures. For Brigade and regimental combat teams. There is no scale but the units "feel" like companies. |
creativeguy | 19 May 2015 5:12 p.m. PST |
BattlerBritain, Any desire to share? :) |
Weasel | 19 May 2015 8:01 p.m. PST |
Wasn't there a variant for scaling up Command Decision or did I imagine that? |