| BelgianRay | 09 May 2015 11:37 a.m. PST |
Apparently no manufacturer has made the correct flagpoles for the Templar Knights they produce.
The beauseant was then, as it is today, a banner of two colors, black over white. It was carried
into battle by a Marshal and protected by a detail of ten Templar Knights, specifically
selected for that purpose. If the Marshal was killed in battle, the Commander of the Templar
Knights detail became the acting Marshal and continued in the struggle. The beauseant was
not allowed to flow as a flag. Rather, it was borne between two pikes and carried unfurled so
that the enemy as well as the Templars could see it advancing. The beauseant was the rallying
point for all the Templar warriors during battle, and it did not leave the field as long as the
Templars were involved in fighting, and the Templars did not cease combat until the
beauseant left the field. Consequently, the struggle did not cease until the enemy was
destroyed or the Templars were all killed. It is reported that when the Templars prevailed in
battle they would kneel upon the necks of their defeated foe and raise their voices in singing |
| janner | 10 May 2015 4:41 a.m. PST |
It was the spare banner that was kept furled until required, the main banner was unfurled. If both went down, they were to rally on the Hospitaller's banner. It's all in the Rule of the Templars. |
| BelgianRay | 10 May 2015 12:11 p.m. PST |
My point is : "The beauseant was
not allowed to flow as a flag. Rather, it was borne between two pikes and carried unfurled so
that the enemy as well as the Templars could see it advancing." |
| Druzhina | 10 May 2015 6:28 p.m. PST |
My point is : "The beauseant was
not allowed to flow as a flag. Rather, it was borne between two pikes and carried unfurled so
that the enemy as well as the Templars could see it advancing." When did they start doing this? Did the Marshal carry both pikes? Druzhina
Illustrations of Costume and Soldiers |
| janner | 11 May 2015 9:39 a.m. PST |
My point is : "The beauseant was
not allowed to flow as a flag. Rather, it was borne between two pikes and carried unfurled so
that the enemy as well as the Templars could see it advancing." As I posted, this contradicts the description in the Rule, but that doesn't mean it's wasn't true. What's your source? |
| BelgianRay | 11 May 2015 11:44 a.m. PST |
Source : The New Knighthood – Malcolm Barber, Born In Blood – John J. Robinson |
| janner | 12 May 2015 4:39 a.m. PST |
I have the former, do you have a page number? |
| latto6plus2 | 12 May 2015 8:56 a.m. PST |
On foot, maybe, but surely not mounted? |
| Swampster | 12 May 2015 3:57 p.m. PST |
There are a couple of pages in Barber where he describes the banner and these are clearly a normal rectangular banner of the time (as shown in Matthew Paris) with a second as a spare kept 'folded' – furled would likely be a better description.
The description in Robinson also seems to be of a normal banner though the online preview doesn't have one of the pages where the beauseant is mentioned. |
| Swampster | 12 May 2015 4:11 p.m. PST |
I cam across this online
"Despite many depictions of the banner in later day paintings, the battle standard was not such that it drooped down on its pole. Rather, the banner was held in place top and bottom by two poles so that it did not require a breeze to be seen by the Templars and their enemies. " This could be the source of the confusion.
Many medieval banners had stiffeners (sometimes just stiffened buckram iirc) placed in sewn-in sleeves which kept the banner in a rectangular shape rather than relying on the wind to show it.
I often do my flags to look as if just the top is stiffened. |
| latto6plus2 | 13 May 2015 3:54 a.m. PST |
A top and bottom "Trade Union" type banner would certainly be eyecatching and somehow more "Papal" and if not too big not unreasonable. |
| Swampster | 13 May 2015 11:39 a.m. PST |
If it was a gonfanon style banner, there would be no way it could be used in combat, so there would be no need for the Rule to specifically ban it.
Likewise if the banner was held by two separate vertical poles. See link
link
and
link
Going back to the original post, there are specific sections of the Rule about what to do if the beauseant was lost, such as going to the banner of the Hospitallers or other crusaders. Circumstances under which it was permissible to leave the battle are also given, so the idea that if the banner didn't leave the field then the Templars would fight to the isn't supported.
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| Druzhina | 15 May 2015 10:07 p.m. PST |
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