Bozkashi Jones | 03 May 2015 12:14 p.m. PST |
Top for me: The Cruel Sea The Hurt Locker A Bridge Too Far and… The Key link It's about rescue tug captains. For anyone wargaming 1:600 coastal this has some nice action with tugs verses surfaced u-boats. A forgotten gem! And Sophie Loren at her most beautiful – who could ask for more?! |
Doc Ord | 03 May 2015 3:32 p.m. PST |
The latest version of the Alamo is good. Khartoum is good except for a few things such as Krupps fired with torches. |
PaulByzantios | 04 May 2015 12:04 a.m. PST |
Well, I can't argue with most of the films listed but since this is the Med TMP there is a decided lack of discussion on Ancient/Medieval films so far with only Branagh's Henry V even mentioned. So the question is, are there any Hollywood movies set in the Ancient or Medieval periods that are even close to accuracy? |
Bellbottom | 04 May 2015 4:23 a.m. PST |
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von Winterfeldt | 04 May 2015 4:46 a.m. PST |
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Liliburlero | 04 May 2015 8:39 a.m. PST |
All Quiet on the Western Front – 1930 La Grande Illusion – 1937 Go Tell the Spartans – 1978 |
138SquadronRAF | 04 May 2015 9:24 a.m. PST |
Well, I can't argue with most of the films listed but since this is the Med TMP there is a decided lack of discussion on Ancient/Medieval films so far with only Branagh's Henry V even mentioned. So the question is, are there any Hollywood movies set in the Ancient or Medieval periods that are even close to accuracy? Very few. I like the 300 Spartans but it's an obvious propaganda piece. The ships looked right in "The Princess Bride"…. I really like "Ironclad" and "Arn: Knight Templar" and seemed gritty enough. "Caesar and Cleopatra" (1946) gets so much wrong but is glorious. So many get it wrong: The Vikings The Longships Alexander the Great (1956) Alexander (2004) Troy The Black Shield of Falworth (even if it didn't contain the line "Yonder is the castle of my fodder" it should had.) Genghis Khan (played by John Wayne). |
zippyfusenet | 04 May 2015 9:54 a.m. PST |
Ancient & Med? Can't do better than Fellini's Satyricon. I could smell the sweat and the rot and the sewage. |
Henry Martini | 04 May 2015 11:55 a.m. PST |
Funny – it's usually Hollywood's output rather than arthouse films that have that effect on me, zippy. |
Joncane | 04 May 2015 2:37 p.m. PST |
There's something about 1950s British black and white war films which hit the mark for me. Perhaps it's because we all know that ww2 actually took place in black and white. The Cruel Sea has been mentioned, as well as Dunkirk. Surprised not to see Ice Cold in Alex mentioned – my personnal favourite. But how about They Were not Divided, written and directed by a Guards armour officer with all sorts of nice touches, as well as lots of period vehicles? I can't help feeling that films made closer to the event caught something I definable about the period which is lost in later blockbusters. |
138SquadronRAF | 04 May 2015 4:21 p.m. PST |
How about "Now it can be told" made in 1944 featuring the RAF Special Duties squadrons and actual agents telling the story of the story of the Special Operations Executive. Film partly on location in France it doesn't get more authentic. The Cruel Sea The Dam Busters Sink the Bismark A Bridge to Far All score highly with me. Whilst it does get some things wrong the Russian film Suvorov is great fun: YouTube link |
dibble | 04 May 2015 6:16 p.m. PST |
"The Great Escape" How anyone could like a film based on a real life tragedy of the slaughter of 50 P.O.W's as a back drop for a Steve McQueen promotion film is beyond me. Perhaps Rank should have made a film called Malmedy, about a gung-ho Brit 'Played by Michael Caine' making the Nazi's look like fools whilst a foot-note in the film shows 80 odd G.I's getting murdered. My films are: The long Day's Dying Theirs is the Glory Charge of the Light Brigade (1968) Das Boot Cross of Iron Platoon The Cruel Sea Zulu Battle of Britain Heroes of Telemark Paul :) |
John Miller | 06 May 2015 6:32 p.m. PST |
My four favorites: Gettysburg, Waterloo, Zulu, and The Duellists. Watch them as often as I can get away with it. John Miller |
Great War Ace | 07 May 2015 12:43 p.m. PST |
Wow, clear well into page two, and no vote for the remake of "The Alamo". Even the characters looked like their historical counterparts in several cases because the actors are direct descendants of the real men. Zapadores? Thornton's Crocket was spot-on, and the episode of him nearly hitting Santa Ana, and the seamless interplay of characters and action, etc. It's in my collection. "Open Range", for the feel of the time and situation, and the way the guns worked (well, except for the reloading in the opening firefight, or I should say, lack of it). But the film feels right. "Wings", the silent version, is the most realistic 1WW air combat movie ever made. It should be, because every second of "air time" (heehee) was the real thing, no studio mockups or fakery, zero, zip. The actors did all of their own flying with onboard cameras, and the wrecked planes really did crash, etc. Medieval: "The Warlord" with Chuck Heston and crew. It gets it right in the feel department, and the visual details are as close as anyone has ever come. I have some quibbles but won't bother to mention them…. |
Tabletopndice | 08 May 2015 6:28 a.m. PST |
Hollywood always gets it right…The "goodies" have american accents and the "baddies" have British accents,, so it must be right. Also in the series Turn they all have Irish accents..what more could hollywood want for historical accuracy??? |
Retiarius9 | 10 May 2015 2:42 p.m. PST |
how about 'The Victors' not alot of combat but good human interest stuff |
Gunfreak | 11 May 2015 4:59 a.m. PST |
Waterloo just because big battles. gettysburg (extended edition is now on bluray) one of my favorites. The alamo, yes people thought it boring, but still has the most realistic battle scenes of that period. (The sound of the volleys, and effect of the canister) Master and commander for reasons allready mentioned. (Also has some of the best sounds effect ever made) A bridge too far, favorite ww2 movie Alexander even with mistakes best representation of ancient battles. Zulu a great adventure war movie. Zulu dawn (where ells can you see 20 000 zulu warriors fly across the plaines) Duellists, great attention to uniforms an fighting techniques. |
Old Contemptibles | 14 May 2015 7:27 p.m. PST |
Glory (yes I know) Gettysburg (I don't care, I liked it) Das Boot Tora! Tora! Tora! Zulu Zulu Dawn The Hurt Locker Lone Survivor Waterloo (See above) The Alamo (2004) Monuments Men Paths of Glory The Lost Battalion (Cable) When the Trumpets Fade (Cable) The Great Raid Gallipoli Lawrence of Arabia (See above) The Light Horsemen Revolution (?) The Crossing (cable) Patton (?) Battle of Britain A Bright Shinning Lie (Cable) All Quiet on the Western Front (Both Versions) Downfall The Great Escape Master and Commander, The Far Side of the World. Stalingrad (1993) The Cranes Are Flying Enemy at the Gates (Yes I know – Nikita Kruschev) Red Cliff Letters from Iowa Jima Flags of Our Fathers Black Hawk Down Go Tell the Spartans Breaker Morant April Morning |
KTravlos | 18 May 2015 7:37 a.m. PST |
Guys which one is the Alamo film/series you are talking about? I want to check it out |
Chouan | 18 May 2015 8:30 a.m. PST |
Western Approaches, although not Hollywood. |
quackstheking | 19 May 2015 10:06 a.m. PST |
Not mentioned yet but my vote will be for "The Last of the Mohicans" with Daniel Day-Lewis. Great battle scenes and a good movie to boot! QTK |
Bozkashi Jones | 19 May 2015 3:05 p.m. PST |
On the train over to Liverpool this morning I watched "Yangtse Incident" – superb action sequences and acted by guys who for the most part fought in WW2 – and starring the real ship herself Talking of Liverpool (well, Merseyside, anyway – I can see where she was built from the Pier head) – how come no one has ever made a film about the CSS Alabama? Has everything needed for a good drama – close confinement, danger, mix of people who didn't always get along, political intrigue, exotic locations, heroes and villains… |
zippyfusenet | 19 May 2015 3:31 p.m. PST |
how come no one has ever made a film about the CSS Alabama? Alabama had no love interest aboard, with the possible exception of young Georgia peachfuzz Midshipman 'Beau' Didleigh. Hollywood needs a hot female role to make a blockbuster movie. |
GHthomas64 | 19 May 2015 4:23 p.m. PST |
hen did a book get it 100% correct. |
Gunfreak | 21 May 2015 2:01 p.m. PST |
KTravlos check your pm box |
latto6plus2 | 26 May 2015 9:00 a.m. PST |
Ooh am I too late? Das Boot Ulzanas Raid Battle of Britain Alatriste The Hill And all the post war, Ice Cold in Alex, Sink the Bismarck, Foreman went to France type British films |
coolyork | 26 May 2015 9:56 p.m. PST |
Breaker Morant – spot on Boer War 55 Days in Peking – not bad Pork Chop Hill- Korea and not bad Old Gringo – Mex. Revolution and quite accurate Blue Max – aircraft and uniforms -pretty good March or Die – spoty acting but great details |
BadKarma | 03 Jun 2015 2:01 p.m. PST |
84C MoPic imdb.com/title/tt0096744 My Uncle was a Marine in Vietnam, did 2 tours, he would not watch this until I cam back from Beirut. He said it was the most realistic he had ever seen. |
guineapigfury | 05 Jun 2015 6:08 p.m. PST |
I've spent 9 years in the military, and "The Last Detail" is probably the best representation of the dilemmas servicemembers face outside of combat. |
Supercilius Maximus | 15 Jun 2015 8:04 a.m. PST |
The speight of b/w British WWII films remind me of my childhood, as they were frequently on around Remembrance Sunday because they were the opposite of "gung ho" Hollywood crap/cheese. The films were all the more poignant because the men – and women – acting in them were mostly veterans, often decorated. A member of my family was with Kearns on HMS Amethyst ("Yangtse Incident") and I recall him being pointed out to me by my grandmother whilst watching Pathe news footage of the crew marching through London on their return to the UK. Of the modern genre, I know many purists are not fans, but the advance of the 54th Massachusetts along the beach in "Glory" and Pickett's brigade through the gun-line in "Gettysburg" are not only very moving in themselves, but also appear to be very good depictions of contemporary linear formations and how they manoeuvred. |
49mountain | 22 Jun 2015 3:17 p.m. PST |
I don't believe Zulu was accurate at all. Zulu Dawn was somewhat accurate. Gettysburg action scenes were good, but the ground the 20th maine actually fought over was VERY different than that shown in the movie. Pork Chop Hill was fair as to the action. Das Boot was very good. Saving Private Ryan was fairly accurate during the landing scenes. Enemy at the Gates was pretty accurate during the beginning of the movie and the sniper action was pretty close to real. Letters from Iwo Jima was very good as was the Dam Busters and All Quiet on the Western Front (1930). Tora, Tora, Tora was Ok but lacked a lot in the non action scenes. Hell is for Heros was very good as far as the action scenes went. Band of Brothers was also good with the action scenes. Thirty Seconds Over Tokyo was very good during the actual training and battle(?) scenes. But no Hollywood movie ever really gets it right. |
WillieB | 23 Jun 2015 2:05 a.m. PST |
84 Charlie Mopic The Duelists Cross of Iron A Bright Shining Lie |
maverick2909 | 23 Jun 2015 8:41 a.m. PST |
I know you all like to hate on Saving Private Ryan, but I would argue it's probably the closest thing I have seen to anything that was like what historically happened. I say this because I can remeber going to the theatre and the two World War II veterans I went with had to leave after the first 10 minutes of the movie. Others I have talked to in my grandfathers retirement home seem to corroborate the same sentiment. |
Shadowhex | 24 Jun 2015 8:35 p.m. PST |
My guess is that War Movies are made for political reasons (to whip up enthusiasm in the home front or to get hate going, known as Propaganda Films) or profit (the basis of almost all film). Regardless of whether its Hollywood, Bollywood, or any other Studio system, most films are not intended to be a documentary. Even documentaries get things wrong too. John Huston's The Battle of San Pietro (a film made for and by the US Army) had shots that were staged. I think that perhaps the upset about "Hollywood getting it wrong" is that we who have an emotional investment in the staging of a war movie wished that those involved in the shooting of the movie had as much desire for accuracy. As was mentioned in the first posts, budgets, lack of military hardware or story flow can impair this. Also, sometimes its the genre that makes the decisions. I consider Kelly's Heroes a comedy first , a war movie second and a heist movie third. The comedy aspect allows you to get around the plot loopholes like driving a tank 30 miles behind enemy lines or having soooo many German's mowed down and so few of the Allied troopers killed. But there were details in the movie that were great: campaign patches, tank mechanical problems, Mulligan's friendly fire, simulated Tiger Tanks. So maybe the complaint shouldn't be "What did Hollywood get wrong" (A paraphrase of the first post), but an amazed "How did Hollywood get it right?" Oh, and I would add: The Sand Pebble - John Paul
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holdit | 26 Jun 2015 4:56 p.m. PST |
A few of my favourites… The Duellists – more because of the look than the history. So many shots look like paintings. Zulu – sure it gets some details wrong, but the gist of it is right, and the cinematography and acting and the magnificence of the Zulus more than make up for it. The Cruel Sea – for its grittiness and relative fidelity to the book, which was written by a man who was there. Das Boot – Ditto. Waterloo – sure, it gets a lot wrong, but it also gets a lot of things right which are easy to take for granted. Gettysburg – I think this deserves an award for the best movie about a battle that helps you understand the battle. The depiction of Gaugamela from "Alexander" would also score highly here, I think. A Bridge too Far, while a good overview, could have done better in this regard. Oh, and Gods and Generals was an awful mess of a movie. Twelve O'Clock High – I can't speak to the historical accuracy, but it seems to be a very good study of the stresses of command, and methods of motivation. |
49mountain | 29 Jun 2015 2:28 p.m. PST |
I forgot "In Which We Serve". Very good. Noel Coward does great work. |
Great War Ace | 01 Jul 2015 8:52 p.m. PST |
@holdit: Twelve O'clock High is based thoroughly on the experiences of a number of RL commanders. link as well as being a first-rate film technically and with a fine array of character actors. "Veterans of the heavy bomber campaign frequently cite Twelve O'Clock High as the only Hollywood film that accurately captured their combat experiences." Sounds like this one "got it right" to me…. |
Jemima Fawr | 02 Jul 2015 1:52 a.m. PST |
Yes, that's certainly why the RAF made officer cadets sit through it. |
guineapigfury | 02 Jul 2015 1:40 p.m. PST |
USAF cadets watch it as well. |
bwanabill | 23 Jul 2015 11:45 a.m. PST |
I have seen Twelve O'Clcok high used during leadership training courses when I was in the US Navy because it's a good study of leadership under stress and combat. |
jpattern2 | 23 Jul 2015 3:35 p.m. PST |
They used 12 O'Clock High at IBM for the same purpose. Bridge on the River Kwai, too. |
Gazzola | 26 Jul 2015 4:04 a.m. PST |
Bozkashi Jones & zippyfusenet I should think that Hollywood or any other film making people, if they thought a film about the CSS Alabama was interesting enough, and of course, would make money, they would not hesitate to include a love interest, historically accurate or not. Unfortunately for us, film making is about entertainment and making money, it is not about educating or informing the audience. I think it will always be a case of 'Why let the truth get in the way of a good story.' |
Gazzola | 26 Jul 2015 4:44 a.m. PST |
I enjoyed Waterloo, apart from the ending of course. LOL. I also enjoyed the following- The Duellists – possibly one the best films ever and certainly one of the best Napoleonic films and certainly period atmospheric The Alamo (John Wayne version) until I discovered the Americans had the larger calibre guns, not the Mexicans (have not seen the recent version?) Zulu until I discovered the assassination of Hook's character. Zulu Dawn Glory The Red Badge of Courage The Four feathers (older version) The Patriot The Charge of the Light Brigade (1968 seems very accurate, especially compared to other flag waving versions) Little Big Man Cromwell Joan of Arc Spartacus Braveheart Gladiator Battle of Britain Band of Brothers Enemy at the Gates There are so many, to be honest and one must not forget the Sharpe films (until they became far too plot predictive) and Hornblower |
Gazzola | 26 Jul 2015 11:32 a.m. PST |
As a matter of interest and since they have been mentioned above- The Last of the Mohicans – 10.50pm Channel (26th 5unday) (a very enjoyable film) 300 – 9pm ITV2 (26th Sunday & 29th Wednesday) (not very accurate but still very entertaining in its own way) |
Henry Martini | 26 Jul 2015 7:58 p.m. PST |
Gazzola – to which 'older version' of 'The Four Feathers' do you refer? There have been five cinematic representations of the story (to my knowledge) starting with the original silent from the '20s, four under that name, and one in the '50s titled 'Storm Over the Nile'. |
Supercilius Maximus | 27 Jul 2015 10:56 p.m. PST |
Torah! Torah! Torah! Mel Gibson directs the true-to-history remake of how the Jews attacked Pearl Harbour with English accents, and reveals that Churchill was a bigger threat to world peace than Hitler and Stalin combined. |
Gazzola | 28 Jul 2015 1:51 a.m. PST |
Henry Martini I think it was the 1939 version. I remember seeing it on TV several years ago, but, although I believe that is a colour version available now, the one I watched was in black and white. Quite a large cast and very enjoyable all the same. |
49mountain | 28 Jul 2015 12:38 p.m. PST |
Yes, the 1939 version of The Four Feathers. Ralph Richardson. Great battle scene at the end of the movie. |
John Miller | 29 Jul 2015 7:28 p.m. PST |
Gazzola & 49mountain: I was rescently given a DVD of the 1939 version of The Four Feathers as a gift, (along with Zulu), and found is extremely enjoyable. I agree the battle scenes are wonderful. The plots not bad either. I am no movie critic but I think Richardson did a fine job and who can top C. Aubrey Smith as a retired Crimean War officer. Thanks, John Miller |
Bowman | 27 Aug 2015 5:07 a.m. PST |
Is it bad form to mention that many of the (best) suggestions are not Hollywood movies? Let me add the German TV Miniseries "Generation War" to the lists. |