"The Forgotten Pearl Harbor Revenge Raid" Topic

"Reeling from the attack on Pearl Harbor, the U.S. needed to hit back, and fast. Enter 5'4" Jimmy Doolittle, who led a raid on Tokyo that knocked Japan back.

One hardly has to be a skeptic, a naysayer, or a congenital mope to find the near-universal acceptance of Tom Brokaw's two-decade-old appellation—"the Greatest Generation"—more than a little irksome. After all, Washington, Madison, Jefferson, Adams and their ilk were pretty damn great. Weren't they? And what about the generation of men and women who helped keep the Union together during the bleakest days of the Civil War? Or the Abolitionists who risked life, limb and livelihood in their righteous effort to obliterate slavery?

But the central reason "the Greatest Generation" is such an annoying conceit is because of what it implies. Namely, that the rest of us—all those who came before or after World War II—kind of suck.

And then along comes a book like James M. Scott's powerful, meticulously researched history, Target Tokyo: Jimmy Doolittle and the Raid That Avenged Pearl Harbor, and the reader comes away shaking his head and admitting that, all right, all right, maybe they really were the baddest generation, after all…"
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Amicalement
Armand

Uhmm…I'm not sure the Doolittle Raid can be said to be "forgotten." Its been shown in movies (it was essentially the ending of the atrocious last movie on Pearl Harbor, after all), had books written about it, and then there's always Dr. Doolittle…okay, maybe not the last one.

Rob

"Forgotten" by the same people that don't know what century WWII was in, or that can't find Vietnam on a map. Maybe there's a phone app that would help them out….

Doolittle and his folks were great.

But the "Greatest Generation?" Nope. Sorry, but the same folks who fought through WWII are also the same people who started our descent into Socialism. Nope, not the greatest in my mind.

As Tango01 points out, if there is a "greatest generation," I think it has to be the folks who fought for 8 long years for independence against one of the most powerful nations on earth and then created a new nation founded on idealistic principles and a (largely ignored today) set of ideas called the Constitution.

Well put Mr. Surdu2005!

I don't think there has been or ever will be "a greatest generation".

Each generation throws up its share of heroes, but also villains. Surdu2005 says the WW2 generation failed because they "started our descent into Socialism". On the other hand, they produced "The Few", the men who although heavily outnumbered, held back the Luftwaffe during the Battle of Britain in 1940, paving the way to crush the nazis in 1945.

I think you could find examples of good and bad in every generation that has ever existed, and I don't see any reason why this should change any time in the future.

As to the Doolittle Raid being forgotten, I think that's a load of tosh to be honest.

the same people who started our descent into Socialism

I reject your basic premise, but maybe that generation enacted some of the things they did they did because, having lived through the horrors of the Great Depression and WWII, they recognized that some problems needed to be addressed instead of swept under the rug.

Ah yes, but if you had stayed with Britain you would have been a parliamentary democracy by now.

jpattern2, I'm not sure you know what my basic premise is, but here you go:

FDR's economic adviser later admitted that none of the big government social programs did anything to bring the US out of the Great Depression. WWII did that.

Bigger government is almost never the solution.

Taking from some to give to others sounds good in Robin Hood movies but doesn't work in the real world.

Punishing success is a bad idea.

Now, we're not supposed to talk politics on TMP, so let's get back to toy soldiers. I didn't mean to cause a kerfuffle, but the "greatest generation" label makes me see red.

Buck Surdu

…makes me see red.

I see what you did there!

Greatest modern generation sure. Compare it to the mentality of today and you can see the point.

That "righteous effort" resulted in burning cities.

If "Captain America" hear what you said… you are going to have problems with him…! (smile)

Amicalement
Armand

It's only forgotten by the younger generation. Who few seem to know much about history.

That "righteous effort" resulted in burning cities.

Yes, it was and is called "War". Very nasty stuff …

"Forgotten" by the same people that don't know what century WWII was in, or that can't find Vietnam on a map. Maybe there's a phone app that would help them out….

Spot on, sir.

I think it has to be the folks who fought for 8 long years for independence against one of the most powerful nations on earth and then created a new nation founded on idealistic principles and a (largely ignored today) set of ideas called the Constitution

Two sides to every coin so…. as you said: no politics.

'nuff said :) At least we're all mates now, eh Buck? :)

Yes, it was and is called "War". Very nasty stuff …

Agreed L4. Let me just flip to the front of this web site…I am right in saying that this is, effectively, a 'wargames' miniatures website, right?

Just checking…

John T

Sorry, but the same folks who fought through WWII are also the same people who started our descent into Socialism.

So they did two good things, instead of just one.

So they did two good things, instead of just one.

Hah! Not that I think ol' Buck knows what is and isn't true Socialism, but:

Agreed L4. Let me just flip to the front of this web site…I am right in saying that this is, effectively, a 'wargames' miniatures website, right?

Yes, it can be very nasty business on a gaming board if you are losing and getting you butt kicked too ! We've all been there !

I think most gamers prefer to refight engagements between armies, and not military-versus-civilian fights (except for resistance battles). I'm inclined to think the atomic bombing of Japan was both the right decision and the best decision, but it cannot translate to a tabletop game. The destruction of the South could be represented in a strategic game, or terrain could represent the fruits of secession, but is there a game where city-burning (whether it is the CSA burning their own cities or the USA burning in retribution) is even an option?