Eclaireur | 25 Apr 2015 11:03 a.m. PST |
"Threw some shells (40 pounders) with excellent effect into Ayoob's camp. A regular stampede ensued… the distance from us being 3,500 yards (two miles) they thought they were quite safe and their horror and astonishment was all the greater", Journal of Brigadier Henry Brooke, Kandahar, 7th August 1880. Inspired by accounts like this and photographs posted here I commissioned the guy who makes Perry Miniatures artillery pieces (the great Niels Rullkoeter) to make the Armstrong breach loading 40 pounder. Our regular correspondent MadGuru joined in with a generous co-production commitment and away we went. I've now received the guns and painted one up. I've put it with some other crew figures here so you get an idea of scale. The photos unearthed by MadGuru show the crews in a blue home service type stable dress rather similar to ACW Union gunner's attire only with an Indian army style pith helmet. In due course I will be converting crews for the 40 pounders in that garb
link link |
Grelber | 25 Apr 2015 3:01 p.m. PST |
Lovely artillery piece, but boy is it huge! Did they use elephants to pull this or oxen? Grelber |
Eclaireur | 25 Apr 2015 4:05 p.m. PST |
Thanks Grelber – The battery in Kandahar was an elephant drawn one, two of them being hitched to each limber. EC |
Rhingyll | 26 Apr 2015 5:31 a.m. PST |
Eclaireur – Can I order two of the guns from NR thru you? |
Rhingyll | 26 Apr 2015 5:38 a.m. PST |
Grelber – I read somewhere that elephants were used to pull the guns but they tended to be frightened when close to the action or the guns were firing. Gun bullocks (described in one of Kipling's works) were used to transport when closer to the frontlines. Ironduke Miniatures seems to be coming out with a line of Indian Mutiny bullocks that would be of the correct type to pull these big guns into position. |
Eclaireur | 26 Apr 2015 10:04 a.m. PST |
Interesting about the gun bullocks @Rhingyll and of course I should acknowledge your efforts also in inspiring me to start this little project. There are four spare guns, and MadGuru has someone in mind for some of them. Ideally I would like to recoup some of the costs of creating the master, so they will be pricier than your typical NR or Perry product. But for the time being at least they will also be exclusive to the lucky buyers. Drop me a line ec_laireur at hotmail dot com and I can explain further. FYI, there is some possibility, based upon a conversation I had with a sculptor friend at the Salute show yesterday, of an elephant battery set – two elephants, limber, mahut, etc being produced at some point in the future. He was very keen to do it, though I think even if he acts upon his impulse, it could be a year or two before such a thing was made. EC |
Rhingyll | 26 Apr 2015 10:22 a.m. PST |
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Rhingyll | 26 Apr 2015 10:24 a.m. PST |
On the workbench at Ironduke
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Rhingyll | 26 Apr 2015 10:26 a.m. PST |
Limber for the bullocks also on the workbench at Ironduke Miniatures.
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Eclaireur | 26 Apr 2015 11:27 a.m. PST |
OOh nice! which limber did you use on your elephant battery? |
Rhingyll | 26 Apr 2015 3:57 p.m. PST |
Eclaireur – I used parts from the Foundry's Colonial India set BSIND3 Draft Elephant limber and some Napoleonic Limbers I had. Think they were Bavarian Limbers from maybe Brigade games. Also made two out of the same Foundry Draft Elephant Limbers and some WWI limbers I already had.They came out okay but I would rather buy one that was professionally modeled Mine will do until something better comes along. |
Rhingyll | 26 Apr 2015 4:00 p.m. PST |
Eclaireur – I think Ironduke eventually plans on Elephants and limbers as part of this new offering. Lots of future possibilities.Well done on the 40 pounder.Looks just great. Need some scaled down shells for it now. |
Rhingyll | 28 Apr 2015 12:00 p.m. PST |
Eclaireur – I can't tell very well by the picture refrred to below, but it does not look like they are wearing puttees with the home service dress. What do you think? "The photos unearthed by MadGuru show the crews in a blue home service type stable dress rather similar to ACW Union gunner's attire only with an Indian army style pith helmet." |
Eclaireur | 28 Apr 2015 2:50 p.m. PST |
If you mean this picture… link I would say no, looking closely at the fall of the guys' trousers, standing around the gun, nb the one whose leg is visible between the 40 pounder's wheels, that they are not wearing puttees. But I suppose it might be possible. On the limber, I have the BSIND3 draft elephant, and I may well use it. A very kind chap in Nottingham is sending me another random elephant for the battery! |
Mad Guru | 28 Apr 2015 10:00 p.m. PST |
Rhingyll, I think Elcaireur is right, that the artillerymen in the blue shell jackets and matching trousers are not wearing puttees, their trousers are just loose around their ankles, unlike the mountain gunners in khaki, who are wearing puttees. BTW, Rhingyll, that Ironduke bullock limber is positively gorgeous! |
kabrank | 29 Apr 2015 2:36 a.m. PST |
Hi All How about the Perry BIF gunners with a suitable head swap for the gun crew:- link Kelvin |
Rhingyll | 29 Apr 2015 6:36 a.m. PST |
kabrank – That's what I was thinking as well and my reason for the question about the puttees.I have some extra heads from some Empress cavalry and will order a BIF artillery set from Perrys and give it a try. I need the 12 lb Armstrong gun anyway for Afghan regular artillery so it should all work out. Bob |
Rhingyll | 29 Apr 2015 8:59 a.m. PST |
Does anyone have a good photo or illustration of exactly what this service dress uniform looked like? |
Rhingyll | 29 Apr 2015 12:13 p.m. PST |
Could this be it or is it the wrong time period for the 2nd Afghan War?
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Mad Guru | 29 Apr 2015 5:14 p.m. PST |
Well, the first point is that the RA crews in blue uniform in that Second Afghan War picture linked to above are wearing shell jackets, not tunics. The second point is that to be honest I think the BIF artillery crews are wearing the older, noticeably looser cut version of the home service dress tunic, such as can be seen in photos of British troops during the 1860 war in China and the 1863 Ambela Campaign, when they wore it along with "Airpipe" helmets. That is also the uniform the old Perry bros. sculpted Wargames Foundry "China 1839-1900" c.1860 Brits wear. All that being said, the earlier c.1860 version of the tunic is not all that different from the version worn in 1878-1880, and if you want to you could certainly just do a head-swap for a classic foreign service helmet head and use the resulting figures for the Second Afghan War. Off the top of my head I don't even know if the official uniform regulations changed (though over the course of nearly 20 years, it's relatively safe to assume they did!) or it was more a case of changes in tailoring style and a "closer fit" coming more into vogue, so to speak. |
Eclaireur | 30 Apr 2015 4:38 a.m. PST |
Rhingyll – are you sure you aren't making life too complicated for yourself? As MadGuru points out the uniforms worn in the photographs show a stable jacket and trousers that are very similar to ACW Union crews. Having painted up the Perry plastic ACW artillery pieces for my Afghan army, I was about to throw the crews out when MadGuru helpfully suggested I use them to crew my RA 40 pounders. I've already converted the first with the aid of a pith helmet from the Empress equipment pack and he looks just like the guys in those Kandahar elephant battery pictures, EC |
Rhingyll | 30 Apr 2015 5:47 a.m. PST |
Eclaireur – That is a much simpler solution. I just ordered the BIF gun and crew from Perrys. I did notice the figure to the back left with the stripe on his sleeve may be wearing a tunic as it looks like he has a white belt on. I will probably paint up a couple of NCOs in the tunic with stripes and belt. The rest as suggested will be ACW in Shell Jackets.From what I have been able to tell the blue color is very dark, almost black looking. What color are you going to paint the basic uniform? |
Eclaireur | 30 Apr 2015 1:46 p.m. PST |
I will be using the Foundry French Blue shades |
Rhingyll | 30 Apr 2015 3:38 p.m. PST |
Ecclaireur – Thanks for the information. |