Zhao Zilong | 24 Apr 2015 11:52 a.m. PST |
In my continuing search for obscure forces to do the idea of a 'What if' involving Sweden in WW2 crossed my mind. At a push I could have them involved in the Winter War against the USSR, against the Anglo-French following an intervention to cut German Iron Ore, against the Germans following the occupation of Norway or later with the training of Danish troops in Sweden perhaps leading to some kind of intervention. I know that these are all quite unlikely but the idea is growing on me a bit. So my question is has anybody got any suggestions for what I could use for them in 15mm? In terms of tanks I know that they had a brigade of Czech 38(t), and that the Hungarian Toldi is based on their Stridsvagn L-60 which provides the bulk of their armour. Has anybody ever done a miniature/model of the later Stridsvagn m/42? link In terms of other vehicles the barely used Pbil M/41 Armoured Car was used by the Dutch and is available. Although it only appears in Swedish service in 1944 the KP-bil APC just looks too good not to have! For guns the 37mm Bofors AT Gun is out there, as is the 40mm AA Gun but what about the proper artillery? Finally, the Infantry and support weapons … not sure what to use for them at all! I probably will talk myself out of doing them as a force, but my curiosity is peaked enough to ask if anybody has any suggestions. Any help appreciated! |
Bob the Temple Builder | 24 Apr 2015 12:30 p.m. PST |
Bofors was a major manufacturer of artillery, including 75mm mountain and field guns. A trip to the Swedish Army Museum in Stockholm would probably provide you with a lot of information. I did write about my visit there on my blog. If I can find the link to it, I will add another reply to your question. |
79thPA | 24 Apr 2015 12:31 p.m. PST |
To me, the Swedish helmet looks like the Italian helmet. I think you could file part of the rim off a Russian helmet. You could also use Germans in a soft cap. |
Bob the Temple Builder | 24 Apr 2015 12:46 p.m. PST |
The following might be of assistance: link |
Black Cavalier | 24 Apr 2015 2:45 p.m. PST |
There are a number of options for Sweden's involvement in WW2. Early in the war, a Swedish Volunteer Corps was set up to fight with Finland against the Russians. link The Swedish government also considered invading parts of Finland with their official army in order to set up a buffer zone in Finland in case the Russians broke through. One of their generals (can't remember which one but he had a very English name like Armstrong) almost took it upon himself & ordered the invasion to go ahead before he was stopped. At the end of the war, Sweden was poised to invade Denmark, using British equipment, to open a new Allied front. Hitler killed himself 10 days before the invasion date(May 10), eliminating the need for the effort to go ahead. It was called Operation Save Denmark) link For figures, Polish would probably be the closest. It seemed like the Swedish helmet was closest to that shape. Also, the Swedes used variants of the Browning & the Vickers HMGs, both of which the Polish used. The one big difference would by the SMGs since the Swedes used a very distinctive design. There's even an manufacturer that makes interwar Swedish figures in 28mm adalenfigures.blogspot.se It's an excellent resource for the look of the army and equipment, & I'd assume very well researched since the creator is Swedish & it's the only line he makes. |
Zhao Zilong | 25 Apr 2015 4:28 p.m. PST |
Thanks for the suggestions. I knew about the Swedish Volunteers in the Winter War but didn't realise it came that close to directly intervening. I agree that Polish infantry might be the best match for them. The Hungarians used Bofors artillery so found them in the QRF range. Also seems I am not the first person with this idea since I found this Flames of War Briefing link |
Daniel S | 26 Apr 2015 1:06 p.m. PST |
No Vickers machineguns in Sweden, the two types used by the infantry were the m/14 which was the Austrian Schwarzlose chambered to 6.5x55 jaegerplatoon.net/MG2.htm and the m/36 which was a slightly modified version of the Browning M1917A1 link The most comman squad automatic weapon was the BAR which was available in two versions the m/21 and m/37 link Other weapons in use were the m/39 aka Czech ZB/vz26 and the pretty horrible m/40 link Mortars were the 8cm M/1929 & M/1929-1936, a Stokes-Brandt design tjelvar.se/vapen/4-143.htm and the 47mm m/1940 tjelvar.se/vapen/4-145.htm which began to slowly arrive from 1940 onwards Finaly there was the heavy 12cm m/42 which was the Tampella 120 Krh/40 link Artillery was a real mess with a mix of pre-war guns, some of which were more than a little obsolte such as the 7,5cm m/02 and m/02-33, more recent Bofors designs as well as German guns imported to make up shortages. (The Swedish 10,5cm m/39 howitzer was the German Leichte Feldhaubits 18)LAst but not least you had a number of guns that Bofors were making for other nations that the Swedish goverment confiscated during 1940. These included howitzer order by the Netherlands as well as cannon ordered by Argentina and Siam. Anti-tank guns were the Bofors 37mm m/34 and m/38 as well as the German 37mm PAK36. Late in the war the 57mm m/43 began to appear. While Bofors were able to design new cannon for the Swedish army at an impressive pace actual production proved a bottleneck and some guns only entered service after long delays. As a stop gap the Swedishfield & AA artillery was equipped with AT rounds and the corps & divisional AT units were in fact dual purpose AT/AA units armed with the 40mm m/36. (The most effective dual purpose gun was the heavy 7,5cm AA cannon but these were concentrated around strategic objectives rather than being deployed with the field army.) |
Zhao Zilong | 30 Apr 2015 4:35 p.m. PST |
Thanks for the information Daniel S, that helps a lot. I am definitely considering trying to put a force together to represent them. |
myrm11 | 01 May 2015 2:51 a.m. PST |
Did they not change their organisation significantly mid war – I seem to remember a discussion to that effect that added more LMGs into a squad mix but Im trying to remember which forum (thought it was here) |
Daniel S | 01 May 2015 4:08 a.m. PST |
That would be the 1943M organisation, to my knowledge the number of BARs remained the same, one in each squad but the other support weapons increased significantly compared to the older 1937 and 1940 organisations that had been used up to that time. At regimental level a new machinegun company was organised with six m/36 mgs, a new "Special company" was created which included the old AA & AT platoons but added a heavy mortar platoon with 120mm mortars, a platoon of assault pioneers with flamethrowers and a AA/AT platoon with 20mm autocannon. The infantry battalion lost the jaeger company but gained a heavy company with 8cm mortars, an AA/AT platoon with 20mm autocannon and an MG section. The infantry company gained a heavy platoon with two water or air cooled mgs and a 8cm mortar. The platoon gained a 47mm mortar section and a 20mm AT rifle The rifle squads got more SMGs for the squad leaders & assistant squad leaders and slowly began to be equipped with the Ag m/42 automatic rifle. (But the later was a slow arrival due to production issues. The most important improvement was the large scale issue of mortars, in 1940 a regiment had either 15 or 21 mortars, in 1943 the number had increased to 56. It should be noted that the 1943M organisation was not fully impelmented until 1945 due to production bottlenecks and it was only the infantry that got that far, armoured units were still waiting for some equipment as late as 1947-48. |
Leadgend | 07 May 2015 11:15 p.m. PST |
Lots of info in this doc: link |
Thomas Nissvik | 08 May 2015 3:06 a.m. PST |
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