"Anyone modeled "Hollywood" tanks?" Topic

I was watching "A Bridge Too Far" last weekend with my friends and having a laugh at their tanks, which makes me wonder: has anyone ever recreated these Hollywood version of German (or other nation's) tanks just for laughs?

You mean like painting up some US M48s as Tigers?

Love the Battle of the Bulge

Takara's done that in 1/144th scale, with German M47 tanks for the Battle of the Bulge, about 13 years too early for the Bundeswehr, and also a Leopard 1/Panther variant for A Bridge Too Far.

I didn't think the Leo's painted as Panthers were too bad in ABTF. In an Arnhem game I did have a random event which featured a Leopard driving at high speed across the bridge…

One of my pals has a number of US vehicles painted panzer grey and covered in big crosses, they come out from time to time.

"One of my pals has a number of US vehicles painted panzer grey and covered in big crosses, they come out from time to time."

Why did he do that?

I've seen a couple of Hollywood medieval armies… at least 2 companies make 'Braveheart' figures.

AFAIK the makers of A Bridge Too Far went to extraordinary lengths to beg, hire or borrow original kit where possible. The different infantry nationalities spent weeks in 'boot camps' training how to use and wear the authentic kit, getting fit, and learning the correct tactics of the time.

Obviously, not all the correct vehicles were obtainable in running condition, and they did the best with what they had and the technology available at the time. At least they didn't go down the route of earlier films, like Battle of the Bulge.

Pedrobear,

If it is the wargamer I think that it is, he inherited a lot of painted models from an old friend and they appear in games as the 'Hollywood Panzer Division'.

Panzer-Division "Stechpalmewald" has quite a ring to it. An excuse to use absolutely anything you like.

"Why did he do that?"

Bob has it correct. 14th 'Hollywood' Panzer Div.

Always cause a stir on the tabletop.

Besides, why not, it is amusing.

Whenever wargamers discuss films and have "a laugh at their tanks", I am reminded how strangely obsessive and disconnected from reality we are as a group.

I have a Panther painted pink… well, just for that reason…

Eric

I always wanted to game the Iliad with 14th Century French or with Byzantine troops.

"Whenever wargamers discuss films and have "a laugh at their tanks", I am reminded how strangely obsessive and disconnected from reality we are as a group."

Thank you Howard, it needed to be said.

I always laugh at the people who say that they laugh at the tanks or equipment in a film. Don't they realize that 99% of the people who actually see the film don't care?

Don't they realize that 99% of the people who actually see the film don't care?

Of course we do. But it's a bit like going to a re-enactment event and seeing an English Civil War pikeman wearing a Rolex!

"Anyone modeled "Hollywood" tanks?"

Of course.

I was watching "A Bridge Too Far" last weekend with my friends and having a laugh at their tanks

Actually ABTF at least made the attempt to make its tanks look like the WWII tanks they're supposed to represent. Here's a similar thread on the topic of Hollywood tanks:

TMP link

'I always wanted to game the Iliad with 14th Century French or with Byzantine troops.'

Why not? That's how Classical warriors were portrayed in the 14th Cenury.

Good point GarrisonMiniatures.

I was watching 'Saving Private Ryan' again the other night, the Marders, Kettenkrad and motorcycles were very good reproductions or original equipment but the Tigers looked to be the same ones as first appeared in 'Kelly's Heroes' many years ago, based on T-34 running gear.

The Kelly's Heroes Tigers would be another kitbashing possibility – see how many people realise that either the running gear is wrong or the tank's hull has been shortened.

Speaking of Kelly's Heroes, where would one get large speakers to model Oddball's tank? (A pipe to "upgun" from "an ordinary 76mm" to "maybe a 90mm" is easy…)

Don't forget that the Germans were entirely happy to field armoured units equipped with captured Shermans and Stuarts, with German markings added.

For extra strangeness, for the Wacht am Rhein they actually visually modified a couple of Panthers to look like M10 tank destroyers.

for the Wacht am Rhein they actually visually modified a couple of Panthers to look like M10 tank destroyers.

Ah, the ever popular "Ersatz Panther":

>>I was watching 'Saving Private Ryan' again the other night, the Marders, Kettenkrad and motorcycles were very good reproductions or original equipment but the Tigers looked to be the same ones as first appeared in 'Kelly's Heroes' many years ago, based on T-34 running gear.

They're not. They are different ones. We had this discussion recently on a reenacting Facebook page I am on. The Tigers in Ryan are different than the ones used in Kelly's Heroes. They are both mock-ups using T-34/85s as a base. But they are not the same replicas used in both films.

Interestingly, Kelly's Heroes was shot in Yugoslavia. So many of the vehicles (including the T-34s that were used to craft the Tiger mock ups)that feature in the film were provided by the Yugo army. That's the reason that a Moisin Nagant sniper rifle is shown being used the in the film in some scenes.

Martin

A Bridge Too Far – I like the scene where XXX Corps are waiting to kick off. You can see the wheels of the vehicles the tank models were plonked on top of. They still looked pretty good and you had to be a real button counter to notice them.

You mean like this?

[URL=http://s53.photobucket.com/user/Cav-Dog/media/imagejpg1_zpsd97174f4.jpg.html]

the tigers in Saving Pvt. Ryan were T-54s and not T-34s. Check for the spacing in the road wheels and you will see what I mean. I am wondering why no body has mentioned the M41 Walker Bulldog tanks used in the Old Combat TV shows.

ABTF even went to the trouble of digging up non-running tanks. When XXX corps gets going you can see chains snapping into place to pull along some of the tanks.

I've seen the SPR Tigers, they were at Duxford for a while, but I can't for the life of me recall what the chassis were. The KH Tigers were originally built for the film Battle of the Neretva.

Ah, found it on the interweb. The SPR Tigers were also built on T34 chassis.

irl they are quite a big smaller than an actual Tiger, but it doesn't show up so much in the film.

'Combat' TV show…with Vic Morrow? I'd forgotten all about it. I wonder if it has aged well?

LOVE the Hollywood Panzers!

Last time I watched the oft (and justly) criticized "Battle of the Bulge", it occurred to me that massed armour – whether or not it's the 'correct' armour – has a real screen presence that CGI just can't match.

If a film-maker wants to show me a panzer division, I'd actually prefer to see the M4's of Hollywood Panzer division in all their grey-painted glory, than some CGI animations of the 'right' kind of vehicle.

YouTube link

There are some not-too-bad Panther mock-ups in Is Paris Burning? based on M-24 Chaffees. They're obvious mock-ups, but someone took some care with them, and I appreciate them for that reason. Also, there's a scene of a pair of them pulling up in front of Notre Dame cathedral, and you get a real appreciation for how lively and maneuverable the Chaffee is. One wonders what happened to the actual Panthers they used right after the war.

Other scenes include lots of American armor, particularly M4A1/76s when they show LeClerc's dash to the city. But the best is when they show the Germans fighting the rebellion in the city using an S-35 Somua. I still haven't determined if it was shot for the movie or original German footage.

As for the rest of the movie, it helps if you already know the story and it gets pretty muddled at the end, but it's worth a look. It was shot in black and white because the city officials wouldn't let the producers put red Nazi flags on the buildings, so they used grey ones and shot it in B&W.

Two great movies for original kit are Theirs is the Glory, which features tanks from the Arnhem battlefield (it was made in 1946) and a Tiger I which is probably the one now at Bovington (and so was in Fury). They Were Not Divided is an Anglo-American buddy movie that features lots and lots of Shermans, some great footage of Covenentors (of all things) and the Tiger footage from Theirs is the Glory reversed. A much better movie than I expected, really, with real (snarky) characters and all sorts of little cameos (very young Christopher Lee and Desmond Llewelyn).

All these are on YouTube.

Once, in my mis-spent youth, I ran a Battle of the Bulge Scenario where the lead German vehicle was a Rocco M-47 painted white, with German crosses, "RO1" decals, and a Rocco commander waving his hand. I was universally reviled, but it was a great game because the Americans assumed it was a Tiger (until they could spot it). It was only a lowly Pz IV, but Col Hessler certainly spooked the Americans and helped the Germans win.

I watched '633 Squadron' the other night and was rather surprised to see the Germans driving about in a Saracen 6-wheeled armoured car – with the film-makers having made absolutely no attempt to disguise it.

As the film was made in 1964 – a time when the Saracen was still a new and up-to-date AFV – I was rather surprised that there were no better alternatives to hand. Surely even a Ferret would have looked better?