Rod I Robertson | 20 Apr 2015 3:12 a.m. PST |
To the wise Magi of TMP: Does anybody make Czech Skoda OT-64 APC's and OT-65 Scout Cars in 15mm scale? I can't seem to find any manufacturer in this scale. Thanks in advance for any guidance offered. Cheers and good gaming. Rod Robertson. |
Jemima Fawr | 20 Apr 2015 5:44 a.m. PST |
Hi Rod, Nobody does any variants of the OT-64/SKOT APC, but QRF do the OT-65 scout car (early version only, without MG/82mm RR cupola). |
Rod I Robertson | 20 Apr 2015 7:08 a.m. PST |
Thank you, Jemima Fawr! I will reexamine the QRF page to see what I missed. Cheers. Rod Robertson |
Jemima Fawr | 20 Apr 2015 1:08 p.m. PST |
Here's the Postwar Czech page: link |
Rod I Robertson | 20 Apr 2015 1:48 p.m. PST |
Femima Fawr: Thanks again. Yup I saw that when I went back to look based on your above posted advice. I will order a couple of these but I was after the one with the small turret and the machine gun. I was thinking about getting some OT-66 Fugs from Hungary and faking it but the "real thing" would be better. Or I might end up scratch building the turrets if the upper deck of the turreted model is not too dissimilar to the older variant.
Cheers and thanks for your guidance. Rod Robertson. |
Tgunner | 20 Apr 2015 1:59 p.m. PST |
Be sure to add this request to the QRF thread below. Geoff is looking for input on vehicles people want to see. Have you check Shapeways? |
GeoffQRF | 20 Apr 2015 2:04 p.m. PST |
I thought we did have the OT-64. I'm just checking with Chas. |
Rod I Robertson | 20 Apr 2015 3:02 p.m. PST |
Tgunner: I did add it to the "What would you buy (2)" a couple of days ago so it's in the queue. I had not thought of looking on Shapeways but I will now. Geoff: That would be great and if he (Chas) could whip up a mini-turret with an MG and an 82mm RCL and a deck adapter to up-grade the OT-65 that would be outstanding. I'm in for 10 OT-64 and 6 OT-65 if the new turret becomes available. 3 OT-65 if it does not.
Cheers all. Rod Robertson |
Rod I Robertson | 20 Apr 2015 3:26 p.m. PST |
Tgunner: I just checked out Shapeways and there were no OT-64's in 15mm or 1/100 scale. They did have a nice one in 1/300 but I've got a Battalion of those from CinC. I did see a beautiful ASLAV however but when I looked at the price of almost $37.00 USD USD, I choked and decided it would be better to pester poor Geoff for my LAV fix. Geoff: LAV III's and variants and ASLAV's too! You really want to make these. They are so pretty and so useful to the modern gamer. They're calling to you, Geoff. They're asking you to complete them and end their suffering in ontological limbo. They're tired of 'being and not being' like Schroedinger's Cat. They want existential closure. They want to be! Oh, the humanity! Cheers and succumb to my not-so-subliminal messages! Rod Robertson |
Jemima Fawr | 20 Apr 2015 10:03 p.m. PST |
Be careful re designations. The old NATO designations for these vehicles are frequently wrong. However, the Wiki pages for these are excellent; listing all the variants and the Czech/Polish/Hungarian designations for them. The four-wheeled APC used by the Hungarian Army, East German border guards and others (pictured above) was the PSzH-IV and you'll be happy to know that QRF do that one as well! :) Geoff, you do the OT-62/TOPAS (Czech version of the BTR-50). If you've ever done the OT-64 it's never been on the website. |
GeoffQRF | 20 Apr 2015 11:46 p.m. PST |
I am vaguely recalling that it was included in the recognition lists though. Now I seem to have LAVIII rolling around in my brain. Cant think why… |
Rod I Robertson | 21 Apr 2015 1:23 p.m. PST |
Geoff: I couldn't possibly say, but perhaps you should seek out one named Svengali and ask him or you could read the writings of Doctor Franz Mesmer. However the easiest solution for this intra-cranial echo is to simply design, produce and market some LAV III's and variants and then I am sure the voices will go away. However, I am not a doctor so….. Jemima Fawr: PSzH-IV, OT-66 and FUG are what I have always used interchangably. Am I wrong? Cheers. Rod Robertson |
Jemima Fawr | 22 Apr 2015 8:23 a.m. PST |
Hi Rod, No, you're just going along with NATO manuals, which are wrong – not you! :) The D-442 FUG and OT-65 were the same thing (a scout car). 'FUG' is the abbreviated form of the Hungarian designation for 'Amphibious Scout Car'. 'OT-65' is the Czech designation ('OT' confusingly being the abbreviation for 'Personnel Carrier'). The OT-65A Vydra ('Otter') was a Czech conversion of the normally turretless OT-65, mounting a a small LMG cupola with an 82mm RR bolted to the side (same as that fitted to one of the OT-62/TOPAS variants – I forget which). From memory, I think this was only used by the Czechs, with other OT-65/FUG users having the more usual turretless model. The D-944 PSzH-IV was designed as an APC (again, the designator is the abbreviated Hungarian descriptor for 'APC'). However, NATO thought it was a scout car, so gave mistakenly gave it the speculative and incorrect designation of 'FUG-66', which actually belonged to a prototype that never went into production. Another prototype then appeared with a 20mm cannon designated FUG-70, so NATO then used that as the designation for the PSzH-IV! Only two or three prototype FUG-66s and FUG-70s were ever built, though the 'FUG-66' and 'FUG-70' lived on in NATO manuals and wargames rules for ever more… [Edited and corrected]: 'OT-66' was the Czech designation for PSzH-IV, though they only received a tiny number of them and don't seem to have used it in front-line service. NATO also used various incorrect designations for the sub-types of OT-62/TOPAS and OT-64/SKOT APCs. |
Rod I Robertson | 22 Apr 2015 11:18 a.m. PST |
Jemima Fawr: Ah, OK. Clear as mud. But thanks for the information. So I can still use FUG if I precede it with D-442. I can use OT-65 (Turret-less) and OT-65A (Cupola). But I can't use OT-66 as a synonym for D-442 FUG because the FUG-66 was only a prototype and the first picture I posted above was a FUG-70 (another prototype) which never went into full scale production? Honestly, I think I preferred ignorance to this bitter and befuddling apple! Thanks for your efforts on my behalf and I will begin doing some more homework. Cheers. Rod Robertson |
Jemima Fawr | 22 Apr 2015 11:39 a.m. PST |
LOL :) You can happily drop the D-number and just call it a FUG (or OT-65). But the PSzH-IV wasn't a FUG (though it was developed from it). |
Rod I Robertson | 22 Apr 2015 2:08 p.m. PST |
Jemima Fawr: "But the PSzH-IV wasn't a FUG (though it was developed from it)." Well that's FUGG'in silly, idn'it! Rod Robertson. |
Jemima Fawr | 22 Apr 2015 3:08 p.m. PST |
It FUG'n is indeed! :) I think that name was too OT to 'andle… |
Jemima Fawr | 22 Apr 2015 3:15 p.m. PST |
Ooo, I just noticed that computer model of the OT-65A that you posted earlier! The work computer blocks a lot of images, so I can only see it now I'm at home. Looks like a nice model and a good guide for Geoff & Chas to update their OT-65. The OT-62B in Czech service had the same LMG/82mm cupola, so they could also upgrade their OT-62 with the same parts. Some Czech OT-64s were also upgraded with the same cupola. |
GeoffQRF | 23 Apr 2015 2:32 a.m. PST |
So.. can we have a bit of a breakdown as to what I can do with the OT-65 and PSzH models? |
Jemima Fawr | 23 Apr 2015 11:08 a.m. PST |
PSzH – not a lot. Good as it is. OT-65/FUG can be turned into an OT-65A by adding the small LMG cupola, which had an 82mm Tarasnice recoilless rifle bolted onto the side (see the computer model above). The OT-62/TOPAS can be turned into an OT-62B by adding the same cupola: link And as mentioned above, the same cupola was an option on some OT-64/SKOTs (when you do that one). |
Rod I Robertson | 23 Apr 2015 2:08 p.m. PST |
Geoff: Wot Jemima said. Mind, you might have to make an adaptor plate to fit over the OT-65 hull upper deck to accommodate the cupola on the deck. You can see the shape of the plate and approximate it's relative dimensions from the CGI posted above. I don't know whether you're planning to make a whole new model OT-65A or just build a conversion package for your existing OT-65. So, keep your OT-65 as is. Offer an OT-65A as either a separate kit or offer a deck plate and cupola conversion pack which allows the buyer to convert your existing OT-65 into an OT-65A. You can do the same with your OT-62 APC although you probably will need a different adaptor plate for that, if you go with a conversion kit. If you intend to build the OT-64 please build it with the standard turret and perhaps offer the smaller cupola with the MG and RCL as an option or as a separate conversion kit. Cheers and good gaming. Rod Robertson. |
Jemima Fawr | 23 Apr 2015 4:44 p.m. PST |
Indeed. Ah, the trouble with the OT-64 is that the 'standard' one didn't have a turret… :) The standard OT-64 was either unarmed or had a pintle-mounted LMG or HMG. NATO called these MG-armed vesions 'OT-64A' and 'OT-64B', though neither of these designations were correct. The Poles referred to the standard version as the SKOT. Some of the Czech ones had the OT-65A's turret fitted, though some of these had twin LMGs and no 82mm RR. There was no special designation for any of the MG-armed variants. The Poles modified some basic SKOTs by adding an armoured box to the roof. These were called SKOT-1A. If they had LMG or HMG mounted they were called SKOT-2. The OT-64 was upgraded to OT-64A standard with the addition of the BRDM-2's 14.5mm turret. The Poles called this SKOT-2A. NATO incorrectly called these OT-64C. Some SKOT-2A had Sagger fitted and were known as SKOT-2AM. The Czechs also fitted some with Sagger, but didn't give it a special designation. The Poles upgraded a great many SKOTs with a new high-angle 14.5mm turret and designated it as SKOT-2AP. The Czechs didn't use it, though it became the main type in Polish service. NATO incorrectly called it 'OT-64C(2)'. There were command variants of all of the above. |
Jemima Fawr | 23 Apr 2015 5:02 p.m. PST |
Basic OT-64 or SKOT-1:
SKOT-1 with armoured shields around the HMG:
SKOT-1A (with armoured box on roof):
Czech OT-64 with armoured box and HMG (essentially the same as the Polish SKOT-1A, though they didn't give it a special designation):
OT-64A or SKOT-2A (with BRDM turret):
SKOT-2AP (with high-angle turret):
A pair of SKOT-2A with a SKOT-2AP in the middle – note the higher turret of the 2AP:
Command variant:
Another command variant:
|
Rod I Robertson | 23 Apr 2015 5:34 p.m. PST |
Ah… Wot he said, I think. Jemima Fawr how do you live in a head with all that trivia rattling around? I think I'm going to need a bleed'in Rosetta Stone to sort the taxonomy of War-Pact kit out. I thought I knew this stuff but now I see I am a mere neophyte. Some of your photos did not open on this page. Geoff: I amend my post above. Make the OT-64A/SKOT-2A or as I now will re-designate it, the "OT-64 with the pretty BRDM turret or the high angle turret". It would be nice to be able to order models with either turret type and perhaps have a third option with the cupola. Cheers and my brain hurts. I'm running away now as Jemima Fawr scares me! Rod Robertson |
Krieger | 23 Apr 2015 11:16 p.m. PST |
The OT-64 with a BRDM or high angle turret would be most welcome! |
Jemima Fawr | 24 Apr 2015 10:03 a.m. PST |
Yup, that's the version that the scary man wants as well… ;) |
GeoffQRF | 24 Apr 2015 12:57 p.m. PST |
I am following this thread |
Rod I Robertson | 24 Apr 2015 2:07 p.m. PST |
Geoff: That is great because I am just confused. However as befuddled as I am, I am ready to send pounds your way for Czech kit galore, so I really hope this stays in the pipeline and comes to fruition soon. I have visions of a Czech motor rifle company and supporting T-72 platoon fighting their way across my gaming table. Yum, yum! Cheers and good gaming. Rod Robertson. |
GeoffQRF | 24 Apr 2015 11:36 p.m. PST |
That is great because I am just confused Me too, that's why I following this thread, to work out how we can effectively expand the range. |
Rod I Robertson | 05 May 2015 5:31 p.m. PST |
Geoff: Relax. Close your eyes and let the world slip away as I count down from ten. You will fall into a deep sleep. 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1. You want to manufacture and sell OT-64A's (SKOT-2A's) and OT-65A's. You have a deep yearning to design, cast and market these models. You feel empty inside and somehow incomplete, but making these models available to the public will fill that hollow inner chasm somewhat and give some contentment and a measure of satisfaction. It is your dharma to do this. This will be very important to you and must become a priority, nay, a compulsion to be acted upon immediately. When I have counted to five you will awake refreshed and with an insatiable appetite to make Czechoslovakian armoured APC's and scout cars. 5, 4, 3, 2, 1. Cheers and good gaming. Rod Robertson. |
Jemima Fawr | 06 May 2015 10:49 p.m. PST |
Look into his eys. Into the eyes, not around the eyes… And you're back in the room. |
Rod I Robertson | 13 May 2015 6:58 p.m. PST |
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Rod I Robertson | 14 May 2015 10:10 a.m. PST |
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Rod I Robertson | 16 May 2015 4:41 p.m. PST |
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Rod I Robertson | 17 May 2015 10:01 a.m. PST |
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Fatman | 17 May 2015 4:25 p.m. PST |
Tinzanos please Geoff! ;-P Fatman |