"One too many broken promises." Topic

I've noticed that I don't look at Kickstarter any more and don't find myself interested in many of the Projects that people talk about. After having been burned 3 times, with no project outcome or refund, and having two major projects slowing down and still not fulfilling orders 16 months after the estimated delivery dates. I find that I just don't trust projects any more. There are some companies that have a good track record, like Reaper and Impudent mortal that I would support again, but I think I'm done with it all. I guess I will just wait until miniatures hit the shelves.

Do you participate as much as two years ago? Less? More?
What are your thoughts?

Moe

Slightly less, but it's still one of the places I get great deals from. Buyer beware and all of that, but if you're careful with who you support it's not a major risk.

I don't participate at all based on what you and others have stated. I would prefer to wait until the miniatures have hit the shelves.

Hard to support even less than I do. I occasionally flip a dollar here or there to lend my support simply because I think the project is worthy of seeing the light of day. Rarely do I Kickstart to buy the actual project. I already have too many unplayed games and unpainted miniatures at home. Never been burned though.

I agree with Disco Joe. I want to wait until product is available.

If I want to gamble I'll buy a lottery ticket.

Wait, we already have this month's down on KS thread going, started this week even!
TMP link

Since there is no actual money gain or share holding in kickstarters I can see only two reasons to invest in these.

1. You really want to see a project and product come to the market that might not otherwise happen.
2. You are bargain hunting and you are willing to "roll the dice" with your money.

Regards
Russ dunaway

I have done some Kickstarters, the latest one Napoleonic Persian Army by Westphalian Miniatures. A trustful company that makes really great figures that are (also) sold by Empress Miniatures (on Salute too). So I am a very happy customer – never lost.

> Do you participate as much as two years ago?

Exactly the same. NONE. I just don't want to tie up my cash as long as even a successful kickstarter takes. Preorders are fine though.

i have done quite a few kickstarters. have not been burned yet. But I go for the known companies.

the only thing I have been burned on is the GMT P500. It is a pre order thing. it looks like a good deal until it ships, then you pay more for shipping, making it cost more than if you waited a bought at the local store. ano more pre orders from me.

I've done quite a few KS/Indiegogo, 30+, but the only one that I've been burnt on was TAG's Tudor KS. 2+ years on, no communication (no answers to emails etc) & only half of my pledge supplied. Suffice to say that I avoid TAG like the plague now – they do some nice figures, but as far as I'm concerned they are a dishonest bunch.

I've backed five or six successfully. Some have been delayed past their projected ship date, but that hasn't been too bad. OGRE was the latest, I think.

The only one I got burned on (and it was a big burn) was losing $300 USD to the Makible KS. Should have had a 3D printer in my hot little hands in October 2013, but the company folded and the CEO took the money and ran. Paypal wouldn't refund it because it was over 45 days old, so I had to eat that cost.

I've never backed one and have no plans to start.

I, slow poke to get a clue that I am, only found out what "Kickstarter" was a mere two months ago (or is it one month ago? – whatever). I found out about "Star Trek Continues" at about the same time. That project is a resounding success. And I may in the future donate to it. But "Conan"? Nope, not even tempted. Nothing in the wargaming venue tempts me to put money into this kind of projects maker….

Russ, you are spot on with your analysis.

Every time a KS post shows up your post should be at the top of it because that sums up the KS experience.

> TAG's Tudor KS

Ahem…
That one failed its goal, so I fail to see how you could loose money on it, as all pledges were returned.

Meh.

I have been frustrated by delays several times, but it isn't like the stuff is insulin. I can wait.

Never had one that funded not eventually arrive. That might turn me off.

I probably use it as much as ever, that is to say, not a lot. I back a few projects a year, never for more than $100 USD (OGRE).

Had one never deliver – and personally, I'll never do that again. If you don't have product in hand, don't look for me to fund you.

Some of you folks must have some really bad luck with (or be really crap at picking ;-b ) KS's. Of the 10 KS's that I've had complete (those that didn't fund don't take any money) They've all delivered except for two that haven't yet reached their delivery dates, and only one of them was notably late in delivery.

I estimate I saved about $250 USD over retail and my total percent savings over the course of the 10 campaigns was around 40%. I could have one in 5 campaigns take my money and not deliver and I'd still come out well ahead in terms of $ saved.

Play the long game, spread your $ around, pick reputable companies with really big discounts and it's hard to go wrong.

I've never funded one, but that's because I understand what KS actually is. I am apparently alone.

You're investing, not buying.
You're backing an idea, not going to the store.

If you think of a KS as a pre-order, that's the problem.

I disagree. "KS actually is" not one thing. KS can be different things depending on who the creator is.

-For Reaper or Mantic it's essentially a pre-order for stuff that would probably get made anyway. Even if it is a funding stream, there's not much risk involved because the companies are established.
-For a company like Johnnyborg/Megaminis or RAFM it's providing the funding for a set of molds that wouldn't get made without the up-front $. USD Still, you're dealing with a company or individual that has experience and a track record so there's not much risk involved.
-For many of the games and products by new creators or teams it's the idea AND the company that wouldn't exist if not for the KS. There's a real gamble involved as often those folks don't have a business history or have an existing productive business that can support the release if things don't go according to plan.
-FInally with a company like defiance, you are funding a project that wouldn't otherwise exist, but you're also giving $ to someone with a mixed track record and there's an even larger chance to get hosed.

All 4 of these use the KS platform, but they are each a very different beast and no matter what they say, your $ is doing different things at very different levels of risk.

In general -though not always- I prefer to stick with situations where I am funding a product that is just part of a larger company or individual with a strong track record. Maybe it's not what KS was originally intended for, but an established company can deal with a few bumps in the road. If my KS funds are what the creator is using to buy groceries, when something doesn't go according to plan, there's just no way I'll be seeing my $ or a product.

Thanks for the comments, everyone. With one exception, I haven't been tempted to get involved with KS projects. It isn't likely I ever will, but if I do, I'll remember your advice.

Old glory receives emails on a regular basis's from people who have an idea for a kickstarter project -- they want prices on sculpting, casting,turn around time,etc --often times they do not even really know what they want done -- just a gleam in the eye?
most of them never respond back. one fella would not tell me his concept for figures because "I could steal his idea" and yet still wanted prices??? Just beware.

Regards
Russ Dunaway

Thanks for all of your input and comments

I guess I will just wait until miniatures hit the shelves.

…and this comment was echoed by a few others.

Here's the thing; we're running a KS right now. It's funded, so the models will be produced. But if our backers had all decided to wait for retail, then they would never get them – we can't afford to pay for moulding and casting otherwise.

So, if a KS is for something you are interested in, and you trust the people involved, then back it – you might never get the chance for those figures otherwise.

Oh, and we've run 5 KS projects already; they all delivered in full, early.
cheers,
Michael

Old glory receives emails on a regular basis's from people who have an idea for a kickstarter project -- they want prices on sculpting, casting,turn around time,etc

That's how I started. I had friends in the business through my work on websites in the industry. I cold called a few casting places and ran into all sorts answers. Some didn't really know what to tell me, a couple shot me a quick pdf they had prepared. In it listed an 'example case' of a 'typical 28mm figure' and all of the costs involved taking it to production. It answered every question I had and I was able to figure out how much I needed to raise to make it happen from that little amount of info. Probably took them all of 30 seconds to send me the pdf in response and I've spent around 10-12,000 on molds and casting with them so far.

Just because you don't know something yet doesn't mean you can't do it. Perhaps it's the teacher and optimist in me. :) That's why kickstarter exists, for folks to do new things. It's not a store, don't go in expecting one and you'll be fine.

I often see half-arsed projects put up and hang my head. I know they will be held up as the example of how poor KS is as a place to spend your hobby money. You can usually tell by someones presentation if they know what they are doing. If it seems too good to be true, it just might be.

I'll be launching my 5th project in May. Previous to KS I had no experience running a business outside of web design, and I had never had experience running a web design business until I did that either.

Americans pride themselves on being innovators and for creating great things. Here comes this platform that gives anyone the ability to do it and some folks hold up the few failures as the standard, rather than seeing the possibilities.

Be canny with where you put your money, think it over and don't spend money you need to feed your kids and you'll be fine. And even pleasantly surprised.

Excellent breakdown, Ordinarybass!

For the first category, I will spend over $100 USD or $200 USD easily: Reaper, MCG, Dwarven Forge, etc.

For the second category, I've spent about up to $100 USD: RAFM, Acheson, Dark Sword Miniatures, Johnny Lauck, etc.

For the third category, I haven't spent more than $70 USD: Itar's Workshop, Mythical Lairs, Tom Wilfong's dice, etc.

I've saved so much money on KS projects, I'm totally broke! :D