"150th Anniversary today - Lee Surrenders" Topic

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General Lee surrenders the Army of Northern Virginia.

Huzzah!

The War of the Rebellion ends!

Well, technically the last Confederate unit surrenders to the British on 6th November in Liverpool.

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Wondered if anyone would bring this up.

The Union is saved and the bondage of human beings ended!

The Union is saved and the bondage of human beings ended!

Ummmm…actually no….

Take a look at the 1865/1866 census before the ratification of the 13th Amendment…and check which states STILL had listed slaves in them….

And as for "the bondage of human beings ended"….ummm…you might wanna check out that the black slave trade is didn't end in the Western Hemisphere until 1877 and it still exists in parts of Africa today….(but the world turns a blind eye to it)…..

For some it has never ended, see. link

Yeps…you can always count on someone to interject their modern socio-political angle into the discussion….

Because the civil war still shapes America today. It's hardly surprising Murphy.

138th…

I'm not surprised compadre….

I just kind of expected an article like this to show up here….

And I see I wasn't disappointed…

Well, amigo, I don't suppose you ever just get what you want, but you can get what you need.

Sorta like you can't discuss history without somebody actually posting facts. What facts are wrong in the article which was written by a professor from DePauw University?

Btw the 1860 census showed nearly 4 million slaves in the slave states and a total of 18 in the free states! All in New Jersey. States that were slave but partially fought with the Union had a total of of 500,000 most of which were concentrated in Missouri, Maryland,and Kentucky. The total in all territories was 46. The Northeast,north central, and Pacific states had none. Zero!

The states you are alluding to were Delaware, Maryland, and possibly D.C.? Less than 100,00 total, with 85% in Maryland. All freed by the close of the war.

BTW there is no 1865 Census by the U.S. as they are taken every 10 years. There are State Census in the mid-decade, but they are seldom as comprehensive, and the 1865 census by any state might be a bit disrupted by events!

Well "amigo"…..

"Sorta like you can't discuss history without somebody actually posting facts. What facts are wrong in the article which was written by a historian from DePauw University?"

Never said anything was wrong about the facts. Just knew that if an article such as that would pop up on this discussion it would've probably been by you…that's all I'm saying…

Oh and yes I did a typo on that…should not have been the "1865-1866" census…was on the phone while I was typing…..mea culpa…my mistake.

Btw the 1860 census showed nearly 4 million slaves in the slave states and a total of 18 in the free states! All in New Jersey. States that were slave but partially fought with the Union had a total of of 500,000 most of which were concentrated in Missouri, Maryland,and Kentucky. The total in all territories was 46. The Northeast,north central, and Pacific states had none. Zero!

You consider Delaware a "Southern State"????…..
1860 census of Delaware….slaves 1,798
Last time I checked Delaware didn't pass an ordinance of secession…..

But Boggstown Indiana did!

But the OP wasn't about this…..

Yes, heard some bells ringing here around 3:00 today. It was a great day for the nation, though there was a lot of work to still be done.

-Will

Murf, it was a slave state in 1860 and so listed in all census documents. You might review the ol' Mason Dixon line issues. If your point was that Union states were hypocrites then that could only be true if they were free states with slaves, or slave states that did not free their slaves, by wars end.

Their were several border states that were to varying degrees allied with one or the other sides. Missouri, and Kentucky were largely Southern in attitudes but neither seceded, usually because of Union troops, and strong business interests on the Mississippi and Ohio Rivers with political power and ties to the North.

Maryland and Delaware, as well as DC, were slave, but generally supported the Union and never seceded. Again troops and business political power insured this.

Physical bondage may have ended, but financial bondage still existed. The majority of that existed in all the northern states, and continued up until the start of WWII.

Afterward, LBJ brought it back with his "Great Society" programs and .

The physical chains may be gone, but .

Yes, I was obviously referring to the US when I was talking about the end of Human bondage not slavery or the slave trade in other areas of the globe. I would have thought that was a given seeing as this IS the board about the AMERICAN Civil War, I will be more carefully in the future.

Physical bondage may have ended, but financial bondage still existed.

History students would identify that by the term "sharecropping", which was definitely Southern in nature. Although the company store could be found everywhere.

Whether slavery ended everywhere in the world today in 1865, that doesn't change the fact that this date was a major step towards the dismantlement of that vile institution.

The company store held all workers in its clutches regardless of ethnicity.

Other forms were chain gangs for unpaid labor for arrests for debts and minor crimes that, again, was primarily Southern mostly directed at blacks.

I note that one hundred years of Jim Crow is conveniently forgotten.

Here's some interesting facts about laws that were in play as late as 1975:
ferris.edu/jimcrow/what.htm

My favorite sign at the courthouse reads:

From this location the artillery of the Army of Northern Virginia thundered in defiance for the last time.

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Of course there is always a different point of view

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Here's some interesting facts about laws that were in play as late as 1975:

Last time I saw signs like those at the museum was South Africa in 1980s….

Amazon warehouse employees are required to wait, unpaid, as long as an hour in a security check out line before leaving their building.

Many low wage workers are required to be "on call" making it impossible to take second jobs or arrange child care. In many cases they're forced to clock out during slow periods but required to remain on site and unpaid in case they're needed. If they ultimately are not needed they're released and not paid for hours spent waiting.

Other low wage workers are classified "exempt" like a senior manager to avoid paying over time. And during their over time they're assigned low level duties such as mopping and cleaning stores. And low level workers such as car salesmen and sandwhich makers are required to sign draconian non-compete contracts like a high level exec or engineer.

When it comes to crime in the U.S. reported and resolved cases of wage theft far exceed all property crimes combined (i.e. wage theft is even larger since most is not reported for fear of job loss).

And U.S. taxpayers subsidize shareholder profits to the tune of $153 USD Billion annually in the form of housing, food, and medical assistance needed for their workers to simply survive and show up for work.

Slavery ended but greed driven injustice and inhumanity are thriving.