"The Ultramodern Board should be Dawghouse Free" Topic

In my not so humble opinion, there should be no penalties at all for expressing opinions on the Ultramodern Board. As it stands now, a leftist opinion (i. e. contrary to American policy , such as it is ) has a 90% chance of earning the perpetrator a vacation in the Dawghouse.
A right winger's chances are far less.
There are two jailbirds in now arguing over events that happened more than ten years ago , the current TMP Statute of Limitations.

How can you possibly have an Ultramodern board without discussing military and POLITICAL choices and motivations?
We can discuss Putin's motivations but not Obama's and that's just surreal.

Personal attacks on TMP members must of course be dealt with. However not on politicians. They deserve what they get.

Obvious spelling error in title.

Move the Ultramodern board to the Fez?

Proof on the percentages?

It does seem that you can have a whole topic on the Ultramodern board in which everybody is talking politics and then one or two people will be dawghoused for talking politics.

No. Leave it as it is. Bill's happy.

I like this idea. Like a cage match in mud.

I could continue to ignore it. A win for all involved.

The threat of dawg-housing is useful as it hopefully moderates the comments of those who post on the UM board. As long as posters remain respectful and do not try to shove their ideas down others' throats, their contributions are valid and generally a positive for the board. If they are rude, intolerant, overly-zealous or espouse truly dangerous ideas (such as supporting ethnic cleansing or genocide), then a stint in the dawg-house is warranted.
"Fear is the beginning of wisdom!", was a statement made by the public relations spokesman of the Quebec Police during the protests in Quebec City while it hosted the Organization of American States in 2008, and while I did not like the fact that a cop was saying it there is a measure of truth in it.
So keep comments on the UM board "dawg-houseable" and let us all walk the fine line of public discourse.
Cheers and good debating.
Rod Robertson

Just have a Naughty board and allow things there.

I just turned off the UM board, just a train wreck as far as I am concerned.

BLUE FEZ all in Politics board and all in current affairs board,

Ultra modern – on TMP (not FEZ) should be politics light – non judgmental and limited partisan ship…

just my opinion.. and not worth a cent these days..

Again I don't believe in the dog house period, if you say you are a adult then act like one and don't be offended by mere words, if you read something you don't like, stop reading like right away so you drop dead or feel the need for a good back rubbing by the Internet police to help you calm down.

All I'm arguing for is consistency. Is that too much to ask?
Either Dawghouse or lock ALL politics or punish none. That is obviously not the case.

If mere words don't offend, then you've either stopped communicating or being receptive to communication. In any case, why spend time on an internet forum?

John's point about consistency is well taken, imho. The problem is that disallowing any political ideas to be expressed is silly, while allowing anything is almost as senseless. Bill seems to rely on complaints on individual posts--relying on participants to call foul seems inherently inconsistent, but the best solution so far.

Generally I agree with Irish Marine but then I have recently been called an anti-semite which is legally actionable in the UK so I guess Bill might want to protect himself. If you can get prosecuted for what you tweet U guess this forum has to be careful.

I will say the moderation occasionally looks lopsided – I'd say non-Americans can seem to suffer too…. but I've seen a lot worse! And of course we all have our own cultural lenses with which we look at what is writen.

"Offend" is probably the wrong verb. I can't recall being offended by too much up here, but "irritated" on the other hand… :)

All I'm arguing for is consistency. Is that too much to ask?

Here? Yes.

Leave it as-is, but, yes, more consistency would be appreciated.

Politics are a huge part of ultra modern gaming and issues.

Either Dawghouse or lock ALL politics or punish none. That is obviously not the case.

Use the Complaint Button if you think right-wing politics are not being punished…

It would be interesting how the right/left divide is perceived if a dog housing is based on that perception.

In 1982, some American students in my college were disgusted that I and many of the British students were Labour voters, that being absolute proof of being communists in their eyes. Our explanations of UK politics fell on deaf ears – so it ended with both sides' misconceptions and prejudices (redneck yank reactionaries and communist goons from the welsh valleys, thoroughly reinforced).

Gave up on Ultramodern a long time ago.

I'm not a lawyer but…..surely punishing someone for suggesting that moderation looks lopsided is prima facie evidence of that very lopsidedness. Or paranoia….. but I'm not a psychiatrist either.

Suggesting something looks lopsided is hardly an accusation of raging rightwing biased censorship. It's probably just our British understatement.

Fez it or dump it. Solves everything. How many times?…….

I do and the Right get snipped while the left gets Dawg Housed or their accounts locked…
Which just happen to Bangostu.

Someone hit the Complaint Button on Bangorstu. I checked it, he broke the rules, he's in the Dawghouse. Nothing to do with this discussion.

I wonder which "side" hits the Complaint button the most.

I back up the OFM and Winston Smith on this one.

I generally try to avoid Ultra-modern because it is calculated to increase my bile. TMP is a place I come to find out how many 12 lb guns were at the battle of Wig Powder, or what the facing colors of the 143rd Albanian Arquebusiers were. I'd rather not have my face rubbed in folks' political opinions. I have in-laws for that.

Another upvote for the Ultra-Modern 'free fire zone.'

That's a verdict worthy of Lord Grey of Ruthin there, Bill.

Isn't this basically just deleting the board and bringing back "Current Affairs" ?

"I do and the Right get snipped while the left gets Dawg Housed or their accounts locked…"

I've had the exact same experience! Coincidence?

Wait wait !! Winston Smith !!! It's tradition that the left get Dawg Housed or their accounts locked while the right gets a snip…..Been that way since I joined up in 2007 !!!!!

Funny, I've been seeing the opposite.

No heat, profanity, or other stuff in my post (explaining how the US justice system works in the case of a couple recent high-profile police shootings), giving specific examples to back up my argument that the mainstream media are being incredibly biased in their reporting, and *I* get dawghoused, not the guy I'm responding to.

A couple times, yeah, I've broken the rules on profanity or unacceptable euphemisms for foreigners, and have been either warned or dawghoused (or both).

I'm still not sure how providing examples of media bias in reporting constitutes politics, but that's the rule Bill has enforced so I try to abide by it now.

I think the rule I object to most strenuously is the "no cheerleading" rule, where it's a dawghousable offense to cheer the [nation] when their troops shoot a bunch of terrorists/pirates/sub-human murderers.

All I can say is that,in the last while, I have purchased Force and Force, and 5 supplements, and I've unexpectedly been wanting to game Modern Combat, which I've previously avoided.

I should also point out that I'm a militant, godless heathen 'liberal' (liberal by description but not by nature) So…I would like to see a Moderns board which *isn't* a shameless fantasy by Tea Party/GOP s.

So it's a moot point.

And 'Lion in the Stars'? Your post is practically satire.

Those beeps made my earlier post sound ruder than it actually was. I sort of approve.

…but the right can bash The Current Administration and just get snipped….

Except, of course, for the guy currently in the Dawghouse…

As a Brit I don't think I'm terribly well qualified to comment on the Tea Party; that said I was brought up on the principle that if you couldn't say something nice about someone, to say nothing. So I'll say nothing.

If the consensus on the liberal left of TMP is that the rightists complain and get noticed, then the answer is complain, complain, complain, early and often.

This board is supposed to be a forum for discussing Ultra Modern conflicts and the wargaming of same. What on Earth does the Tea Party have to do with that. This board should not be used to discuss divisive politics unless those politics have a direct bearing on the conflict under discussion. If the Tea Party fires on Fort Sumter then it is fair game, but short of that the politics should be those which shape the conflict and not those which swirl around it.
If someone feels strongly enough about an issue have the they should have the guts to speak up and serve a stint in the Dawg-house anyway, but otherwise follow the rules. If liberals feel they are being targeted then start hitting the complaint button when more right-leaning posters step out of line and then the disparity (if there is one) will be corrected. When challenging another poster's point of view be firm but respectful and I will bet that we will see less DHing and more informative debate for the most part.
The pursuit of knowledge and wisdom and the practice of democracy require all participants to listen to each other and to compromise and meet in the middle. Americans should re-read their Federalist Papers and Brits should review John Stuart Mill and Thomas Hobbes. The only sane way forward is to move between the poles not towards them. At the poles lie intolerance and disenfranchisement. Only by navigating the middle course will we prosper.
So, I ask the right-leaning and the left-leaning to listen to each other and debate each other in good faith and all should be willing to learn and change their convictions if persuasive arguments are made. For those who do not respect their fellow posters the dawg-house is an appropriate reminder that we all share this forum and must behave accordingly. Do the crime, do the time!
Locking-out someone is a far more drastic measure and should never be done for purely ideological reasons. The editors should realize that such an action does threaten free discourse of ideas and thus could diminish the conversation which is TMP. Locking-out is a draconian measure which should be reserved for the most serious of behaviours and should not be applied to those who have been dawg-housed repeatedly unless there are extraordinary circumstances requiring it. Dawg-housing recidivism itself should not be a grounds for locking-out IMHO.
Rod Robertson.

Except, of course, for the guy currently in the Dawghouse…

Who was bashing the Right, which kind of proves the point.

There is a difference between having a discussion about politics and having a political discussion. The difference is whether or not you are offering (and/or proselytizing about) value judgments related to the political events.

Saying that the new XYZ law is in effect in ABC jurisdiction is part of a discussion of political events.

Saying the XYZ law is a load of is a political discussion.

Identifying effects 1, 2, and 3 (which presumably most people would consider to be ill effects, without labeling them as such) is part of a discussion of political events.

Identifying effects 4, 5, and 6 (which presumably most people would consider to be beneficial effects, without labeling them as such) is part of a discussion of political events.

Requesting evidence of and discussing the validity of effects 1-6 discussing of political events.

Saying that 1, 2, and 3 outweigh 4, 5, and 6 or vice-versa is a political discussion.

Opining that such a value judgment is exactly what one should expect from a member of the Genosian Trade Federation is a political discussion.

It is eminently possible to have a discussion of political events without a political discussion. How likely it is, depends on the participants, not the subject matter.

"Proof of percentages?"

I was also wondering about the OP's claims until I realized his context showed that he is mostly talking about current occupants.

I was about to stick myself with a pin when I read the claims, since I always saw the Editor dangerously leaning more like the tower of Pisa, when viewed from the East side that is:

Dan

Who was bashing the Right, which kind of proves the point.

Most people would not consider the current US administration to be Right(wing)…

Bill,

For once I agree with you!!! But, if their left-leaning trend continues, it will go full circle, showing up again as if rising from the right. Maybe that's what the man meant. That it's so left that it's almost right. :)

Dan

actually never mind. I don't want to get DH'ed.

Suffice to say that "left" and "right" is viewed very differently around the world.

I accept the idea that if you are going to game modern combat, you *will* be expected to tread on some toes – although, for me personally, I go for things like Generation Kill. I like Black Hawk Down though too, so…

I just get a feeling that there is not even an attempt to make a particularly volatile gaming thing in any way neutral – I'll admit that it's hugely difficult in any case, but certainly it seems to me that a certain person isn't even trying, and instead almost inviting a drooling type.

Anybody taken the Political Compass test? It's a 2D model rather then the simplistic 1D left-right scale which is very inadequate. People are often surprised by the results.

link

Most USofAmerican people would not consider the current US administration to be Right(wing)…

There, fixed it for you!

Most people would not consider the current US administration to be Right(wing)…

Did you even read what he wrote before DH'ing him Bill?

So DON'T DH ANYBODY on Ultramodern if we can't figure out who they offended.
It is so very easy to turn off Ultramodern. If it offendeth thee, pluck it out.
And I have seen that unlike CA, it somehow does NOT spill out to infect the 18th Century Lace and Wigs boards.

There seems to be a very prominent class these days whose main function is to get offended by anything and everything. Why cater to them?

I agree with John (still do not like "Winston Smith" as a name: IIRC at the end of the book he was a traitor to all, even his own opinion). Perhaps for at least sóme foreigners (like me) the reason for dawghousing is clear as mud. Some time ago I responded to a post of Tango and called some American politician "silly". I was dawghoused for five days ! If it isn't even possible anymore to call someone "silly" in "The Land of the Free" (;-)) that should be bad….

Oh MH Dee you can never say any thing bad about the TeaParty/GOP you will be Dawg Housed, but the right can bash The Current Administration and just get snipped….

I have been DHed for very mildly bashing the current administration, so your contention is not always the case.

Of course, I voted for the current administration, because the other guy was even worse, so maybe I was DHed for being a leftist? IDK, the left/right thing is a load of crap IMO.
-Kle.