"La Fronde" Topic
9 Posts
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smacdowall | 30 Mar 2015 3:49 p.m. PST |
Does anyone know if the French rebels of La Fronde carried standard French flags and wore white sashes or whether they had some other identifying colours? We know Condé was one of their leaders but I cannot work out whether his battalions should have the same flag carried once they re-entered the King's service or something else. |
Jcfrog | 31 Mar 2015 6:12 a.m. PST |
Most likely, very much in fashion I can cheat by googling in French so found this book with a page at least of description. link Maybe look into an armorial to see the heraldry attached to the big names. |
Jcfrog | 31 Mar 2015 6:14 a.m. PST |
They are not officially again the king as a symbol. A bit like Ecw. " he has bad advisors" this kind of stuff. Many of the units on the frondeurs side are mercs, Germans. Would have their own flags. |
smacdowall | 31 Mar 2015 12:47 p.m. PST |
I am particularly thinking of Condé's Regiment at the Battle of the Dunes. His livery was yellow and red and his regiment's flag the following year after he had been pardoned is known. What I am struggling with is that he was fighting for the Spanish in 1658 against Turenne. On the assumption that Turrenne's loyal French had white sashes and flags with the white cross, would Condé's men have adopted the red Spanish sash and maybe carried other colours? I suspect no one knows for sure and I cannot make my mind up on this. I suppose there would have been at least a differentiating field sign. Did the Fronde rebels have a common identifying sign or, given that the nobles were simply fighting to preserve traditional rights, did they simply do as they pleased? |
Jcfrog | 31 Mar 2015 2:20 p.m. PST |
In the book link there are many ansŵers. And I am not interested enough to translate now. And busy. Copy, and prompt translator is your friend. |
smacdowall | 31 Mar 2015 2:30 p.m. PST |
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timurilank | 31 Mar 2015 3:00 p.m. PST |
Simon, Reading Turenne by Sir H.M. Hozier (1885) might shed some light, albeit a small one. Page 105, link describes Mazarin's reentry in Paris after a brief banishment. His officers wore green scarves, the colour of the liveries of the cardinal. Every party then had its scarf; white was for the King and Isabel that of Condé. Isabel is described as a pale grey-yellow, pale fawn or parchment colour. I am not so sure Condé was disloyal to the crown as he and the other princes were attempting to wrest Mazarin's strangle hold on France. That being so, I would not think the adaption of Spanish devices or colours would prove a sound choice. in addition to the regiments mustered for the Royal army, the nobles were chartered to raise troops or "gentlemen" regiments. Many of these merged with existing regiments during the reforms of the 1660's. My own interest are the later wars of Turenne (1670 onward). Cheers, Robert |
smacdowall | 31 Mar 2015 3:11 p.m. PST |
Thanks Robert. That is very helpful. I am inclined, therefore, to keep Condé's men with white scarves rather than Spanish red or Condé livery of yellow and red |
smacdowall | 01 Apr 2015 2:51 a.m. PST |
I see that I misread – pale yellow for Condé rather than white |
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