"Is Wargaming a Healthy Hobby to Introduce To The Young?" Topic

From my earliest memories I loved anything to do with the military and war. My military brother 18 years my senior was a big inspiration. He constantly bought various model kits to build, books and WW2 comics to read, boxes and boxes of Airfix toy soldiers. One Christmas he bought Prince August moulds and I spent an entire Christmas melting lead and painting Napoleonic uniforms.
Then my older sister declared war on war: telling both my parents that this obsessive attraction to war and death was altogether unhealthy for a young impressionable mind. My parents agreed (a fearful reaction to the prospect of another son entering the army I think) and so started an era of my childhood that I'd prefer to forget 👹
Where best to debate the advantages and disadvantages of this hobby than here? What are the upsides of the hobby? Are there any? Do these advantages outweigh any potential harmful effects?
Are we giving the young a harmful attraction to a destructive evil condition or does it actually play a positive role in educating a generation that is in risk of forgetting the heroics and danger of human conflict. Or does it provide any meaning contribution at all?

The only real health problems are:-
Obesity
Personal Hygene

I don't find anything great in war, it is horrible and should be avoided… Wargaming is all about learning history while having fun, in fact the more you learn about history and war the more one should be inclined to be against it…

So for my side I'm eager for my kids to embrace the hobby, most wargamers I know have read more, know more history and geography than average individuals so I think it is a positive influence and the more dedicated ones actually also know a bit more math and statsitcs to get tactical edges :) …

So, I'm all for it.. Not many mass murderers can trace their inclines to wargames I guess :)…

I love this hobby … I do expect my kids to bathe every day and keep healthy life styles :)

cheers
Francisco

War has more to do with ignorance and intolerance,and less to do with creating army lists, obsessive collecting, painting and trying to out play your opponent.
It seems to me your parents and your sister, with all due respects, displayed the type of mindset that…
Naw can't teach intolerant and ignorant people.

Sorry to hear about your childhood problems but there is nothing to debate. That plus being who we are it would be a one-sided debate

Sillypoint is right … and knowledge is power (and few have a better grasp of military history than wargamers) …

It is also more than a little naive to assume that wargamers and others who study or know about warfare would wish to inflict on others.

Speaking only for the historical game, I see no downside (other than the rather unbalanced social mix).

Phil

I think our hobby offers a great deal for young people.

There is plenty of problem solving to be done, especially when your infantry is in square and getting pounded by artillery, there is also the history of course, economics (learning where to compromise and where to splurge regarding your budget), and paying attention to detail (building the historically correct army, painting, and keeping abreast of what your opponent is doing during a game).

My son (age 20) has no interest in gaming since it is not on the computer, but my 8 year old daughter has already written a set of rules and is now getting into sculpting. She used fimo to make me a tank, and decided my infantry needed a ride, so she made me a truck as well. I am perfectly happy to share my hobby with her, and I think she will gain from it.

no

As a parent, I'm looking forward to sharing my hobby with my two boys, though at the moment they're obsessed with Thunderbirds more than tanks. The risk is them obsessing about it, remember some kids in high school who took warhammer and dnd a bit too seriously.

"Is Wargaming a Healthy Hobby to Introduce To The Young?"

Of course it is.

"but my 8 year old daughter has already written a set of rules and is now getting into sculpting. She used fimo to make me a tank, and decided my infantry needed a ride, so she made me a truck as well. "

How brilliant is that😊 lucky man!

I shared my hobby with both my sons and as young adults I've one with that is a CW-2 flying Apaches with a Masters in Molecular Biochemistry married to a lovely and sweet PhD in Micro-biology and his younger brother a 2Lt finishing his first year in Med School at USHSU, seriously dating a classmate. Both are gamers, the older one serious about his painting and the younger more of a social gamer but if it has harmed their development, I'm having trouble noticing.

@ War Panda
I am rather proud!

And the stuff she does for herself, using normal modeling clay, looks like it came out of Wallace and Grommit. Until she discovers boys she will be great in this hobby!

I'd say no. I've been interested war and war-toys ever since I was a kid. My parent tried for a very short time to keep them out of the house, but then a neighbor kid got me a GI-Joe Plane for my birthday and slowly the wall crumbled until by 2nd grade I had tons of army toys, toy guns, etc.. I was never a violent youth nor did I get in much trouble.

Interestingly, I don't yet get military toys for my 4yo son. He see's my sci-fi and fantasy wargaming stuff and he knows that they fight, but I think I'm letting him grow slowing into things like war and battle. Regardless, by 8, I think I'll have a young wargamer on my hands.

wyeayeman got it in one, but even the obesity and hygiene issues are not causationally related

@McKinstry

You´ve got great boys, congratulations!

As long as you keep them away from the Blue Fez

Sometimes you just get lucky but I honestly believe the hobby promotes reading and engages their imaginations every bit as importantly as playing sports helped physical and social development.

I think that it reinforced my mindset that war was about brilliant generals without considering the deaths, but contradictorily, it also reinforced the image of the heroic battlefield where you could make a difference and where heroic deaths were meaningful and redeeming.

Over the years, though, reading and research have impressed on me that war is mostly about young men being horribly maimed if they are unlucky, or having all of the potential of their lives disappear with their deaths, if they are lucky. Most military histories gloss over what happened to civilians: being killed incidentally, robbed, raped, starved to death, and driven from their homes.

And yet, I continue to play these games. Cognitive dissonance in action.

"It is well that war is so terrible, otherwise we should grow too fond of it."

--Robert E. Lee

McKinstry, I can feel the pride. What's the secret?

Teaches hand eye coordination (painting figs), colour matching, assembly skills (if you can make an airfix kit you can put together furniture), gets them reading/researching, they'll learn far more about history than their history teacher will tell them, strategy, teamworking, social skills, how and why you should use a good deoderant.
As above, it will also teach them about the horror of war, that its not all glory. If anything, reading history put me completely off joining the army, more because of the way governments have treated their vets after the conflict is over, and how so many lives are wasted on fruitless attacks.

Absolutely.

You don't declare war on anyone. Your sister declared war on war. I think that's pretty telling.

I play various forms of games (PC games, board games, etc), but I think wargame (either in the miniatures or board game) is the best form of tabletop gaming. This is primarily because we're playing on a 2D surface, and wargaming makes us think spatially, which I found to be extremely important.

Of course there are other games that use 2D elements, but nothing has spatial-aspect related rules as strong as wargaming. Facing, zone of control, adjacency rules, relative positioning… these are all very good for developing spatial thinking (which is even later applicable for many, many non-spatial stuff). The ability to read the state of the table based on all the different units and their location is also not to be undermined.

This is what makes wargaming so engaging to me. Sure, first is all the "cool" factor. But now? That's a distant third or fourth.

I'm a staunch pacifist and I play wargames with my son.
If anything, studying history has made it abundantly clear what a terrible thing even a "good war" is.

We spend a lot of time talking about history but of course, you have to put it in terms that are reasonable for their age.

It also helps you put things in a new context as well. My son loves watching those "greatest tank battles" shows and whatnot but after watching them, I had to explain that the Nazi's were not the heroes of world war 2, since the shows made them out to look that way.

In the end, the kids will tell you what they like. Sometimes it's rolling dice and playing pretend soldiers,sometimes it's cutesy cartoons and sometimes its Minecraft. The joy of being a parent :)

edit:
Above all else, no matter what your kids are into, TALK TO THEM.
Help them establish context. Help them understand that there's a lot of ways to look at something. Teach them to ask critical questions. Teach them that when they see and read something, it has an agenda.

Sample size of 1, but my son turned out OK, so far. Working at Ludwig Institute for Cancer Research, Oxford, via Warhammer FB, Warhammer 40k, Magic, Jyhad/VTES, Battlelore, Epic etc etc, I really DON'T know how many games we've played. At first I MAAAAY have allowed him to cheat a little, so's to win. Latterly, I've been wishing I could find a way to cheat, so's to win. I shouldn't like to be Cancer!

Darn straight Legbiter. I want a Doctor that purely hates to lose.

From H.G. Wells's Little Wars:

"Great War is at present, I am convinced, not only the most expensive game in the universe, but it is a game out of all proportion. Not only are the masses of men and material and suffering and inconvenience too monstrously big for reason, but the available heads we have for it, are too small. That, I think, is the most pacific realisation conceivable, and Little War brings you to it as nothing else but Great War can do."

Being the law abiding citizen that I am here on TMP I won't normally quote those who find themselves on the wrong side of the law but since this thread is dealing with the ethical and moral ramifications of this hobby I thought this voice deserves to be heard and I am willing to suffer the consequences if the powers that be deem it worthy of retaliation (just spare my wife and kids)

A post from "Prison Mike"

I think the harmful effects to which you refer will be there with or without wargaming – the kids who pick up a stick and use it like a gun because their mother won't allow toy guns, and the kid who got suspended from grade school for biting off parts of his pop tart to make it gun shaped are jus two examples. Can't escape the influences of TV, movies, comics, graphic novels, the internet and social peers.

So…introducing them to wargaming allows one to frame the context, control the message, teach math, history, social studies, analytical thought as well as the craft skills with painting, scratchbuilding, etc. You also have the opportunity to remind them that this is a game and that the reality is horrible – framed appropriately for their age.

If you are teaching him and a group of his friends, it also allows teaching social interaction, fair play, teamwork, leadership, and how to lose gracefully. The post game wrap-up also affords another opportunity for analytical thought, comparison with historical outcomes, ideas they might want to try next time, research opportunities both online and at the library (with REAL BOOKS!!!).

So, FWIW, I'd say not only is it healthy, it should be highly recommended to those of us who are of the right temperament to do so.

Many Thanks to thE contRibutoR of thE Message. Evidence that I Never Name The Author even if he's a french prisoner. :O

Sorry to hear about your childhood problems…

Not sure if your being serious there or not :) but just in case I came across as some kind of sad victim I want to make it clear that it really just a storm in a tea cup…To a spoilt brat who always got his own way it probably felt like the end of the world and the ban only lasted a few months :)

Yes. The history should be the real draw, the neglect of which has gotten the world in its current situation.

DM

War Panda:
Wargaming has both positive and negative implications for the young. Like so many things in the world in which we live it can be a double-edged sword. In a world where kids are regularly exposed to serious crime, murder and mayhem every time they play most video-games, miniature wargaming seems pretty benign by comparison. The high speed and repetition of the snap decisions which kids make in digital video-games may alter their perceptions, their thought processes and can lead to autonomic conditioning that subverts conventional morality. So one must consider the environment surrounding young wargamers when evaluating its impact on the young.

Positives of miniature wargaming:
The first advantage of miniatures wargaming it that it slows a kid's thinking progress down long enough to consider their actions – and maybe, just maybe, to consider the implications of what their choices might be.
Promotes an albeit artificial but nonetheless positive idealism of honour, sacrifice and stoicism in kids, which they would not otherwise be exposed to, through the exposure to and study of certain military heroes and values.
Promotes problem solving skills and linear reasoning which are weaker and weaker aptitudes in modern youth.
Sparks and feeds historical interest and awareness.
Promotes reading and research and inculcates critical thinking and analysis.
Promotes artistic and craft skills such as mentioned in earlier posts.
Exercises fine motor skills.
Is a social experience which allows human interaction rather than a solo experience with a focus on interaction with a digital device.
If guided properly, it develops a morality which includes exposure to moral challenges and dilemmas not normally faced by the young.

Negatives of miniature wargaming:
May imprint a pro-militarist bias in the young at least while they are young and this may persist into adulthood.
Exposure to very harmful ideas through participation in gaming conventions and fora by exposing the young to fringe ideas of some participants in such conventions and fora.
Time-consuming and may take up time better used in playing outdoors or socializing with a wider circle of social contacts.
May lead to social exclusion or marginalization if a young person focuses too much on the hobby. Also may trigger social reactions from others who do not approve of the hobby.
Sedentary activity which may have health implications for a young person such as fitness issues and obesity.
Can lead to problems in school when well informed students confront poorly informed teachers and administrators about matters historical and military. (I have seen this quite often as a teacher myself – although not an ill-informed one I hope!).
Exposure to dangerous pigments and heavy metals which may have negative health effects somewhere down the road.
Making a bloody mess and never wanting to clean it up!
Cheers and good gaming.
Rod Robertson.

> Not sure if your being serious there or not :)

I was serious. My father did not have any trouble with war games, just with games in general. "You playing those kids games again" was an oft heard quote of his. I would get him back by saying that any kid could play basketball but not all of them could play wargames. Since he would have gone to college with a basketball scholarship if not for WWII (and then getting married and having a kid so not going back to college after the war) that really got him. When I learned the particulars of HIS cildhood later on (basically he told everyone on his deathbed) I would never have done so.

Most people say how the vets do not want to talk about the war, well my father was pretty much the same way but his childhood was worse. Makes me glad I never met my paternal grandfather.

Oh man did that ramble… No victim here either, just could not stop once I started.

Even the gubbermint is agin us!

Guess my girl will have to stick with plastics.

It can introduce – history (reading), literature (reading, again), art (both studying paintings and practical work), maths (working out all those dice throws etc.), practical work (scenery),logic (if I do that, this could happen), the list goes on.

The insidious gaming isn't wargaming with miniatures, it's 'puter games. Hardly a redeeming feature in that pestiferous substitute. Whereas, as has been eloquently stated often above, miniature wargames have many positive elements that extend into larger life in advantageous ways.

And, I concur that the study of history while "gaming it" tends toward a maturity that more strongly shuns RL war as the ultimate calamity….

Make love, not war man, peace out dude!