"In defence of ...Difficult Gamers." Topic

Ubercommando seems to have given up after only two rounds. I'll pick up the short and have a go at it.

Difficult Gamerss- These are people who are hard or a bit uncomfortable to accommodate, or deal with. and may be prickly, but have some obvious virtues.

This DOES NOT mean nasty or insulting gamers.
This DOES NOT mean cheating or dishonest gamers,
This DOES NOT mean persons who insist on always having their own way.

It means gamers with occasional habits that may be infelicitous.

The Osprey Nazi (always picks apart paint jobs)

The Schnorer (guy who will go to the longest lengths to squeeze one more benefit out of a rule or a situation.

The Foghorn- The Guy who talks too loud.

The Hysterical Researcher- The guy who will come up with the most arcane and absurd evidence that Vikings used Plate Armored knights so he can use them in a game.

I'm sure you can all add dozens more of types, but it's not necessary. It's not the totally vile person I'm talking about, but the gamer who is usually OK, but just has a few quirks that drive you nuts and make things harder.

Defend such behavior if you will, but for me life is too short.

Civility is a virtue.

The agonizing over every decision ditherer is the difficult gamer I have the most trouble. Especially in a convention game.

Remember I'm not talking about the uncivil lout, I am talking about the person who may be particulary strident about his own particular hobby-horse.

for example, a person who may be a stickler for realism and accuracy might, in spite of all his nattering on about how your "Scharnhorst" does not have the right number of steam pipes in the right position on your 1:2400 model of the Scharnhorst, still knows a lot about a lot of things and can help in the context of the club, save a lot of people missteps and show them the best way, if they choose to take it.

His "difficulty" may be his virtues taken to excess. Does one exclude him for that when that is true?

Well, in order of precedence….

Osprey Nazi – Pick away. I can deal with boorish behavior for a time, but only for a time.

The Schnorer – He's a cheater.

The Foghorn – I would simply ask him to "use his inside voice", just as I do with children.

The Hysterical Researcher – He too is a cheater.

All of these fall under the "who much and how often". I can stand a certain amount (and indeed, cause a certain amount) but only a certain amount.

If someone is causing you not to have fun, why the heck are you playing with them?

….Absolutely agree on that one.

I think Dynaman hit the nail on the head. If his "special attributes" get to the point that his behavior is ruining my fun, it is time for one of us not to attend the next gaming session.

I'm with Dynaman. I just don't invite them back…

Let's all set up some straw men to knock down. That's always fun.

On the whole, as long as we are having fun I can ignore most minor pecadillos as, I hope, others do with me. If it isn't fun, I would change.

Note – I do play now and then with a Hysterical Researcher (to a degree) but otherwise fine fellow who will latch onto the most minor of one time occurences and announce that any rules set that doesn't allow for X is clearly flawed to the point of unplayability, where is is an implausible activity he'd like to perform. Mostly I find it funny.

There is also the 'creative license' gamer, who will take any rule or lack of a rule and try to break the game on purpose, just to see if he can. 'There's a penalty for moving across the river, but nothing says I can't dismount my Hussars, have them tie the horses up to yonder trees, grab reeds and have them submerge themselves underwater in ambush.'

While mildly entertaining, I never invite them back.

I've dealt with the following- the 'smarter than thou whiner.'

I used to play in a regular Battletech game with a guy who was a very intelligent programmer and mathematician. We were playing in some free for all games and he always tricked out his mechs based mathematically for best damage at particular ranges- sure no problem with that- that's how you metagame Battletech. He would berate others for not following that formula, which is also fine to a point.

Where we booted him and didn't invite him back was when he got into a screaming match with a player in a free for all game where that player who was clearly doing badly due to some critical hits received early in the game chose the programmer's mech (who was undamaged at that point) as a target instead of shooting a much worse off target who he might get the kill for (though he would be dead in a future turn since he was surrounded by other clean mechs). The guy whined loudly, and as we were playing in a conference room at the company we worked with at the time, he proceeded to diagram on a white board why mathematically the player was a moron for attacking him instead of the target that he might be able to destroy. After his tirade, the programmer insisted, "So, why on Earth are you attacking me again? All you are doing is wasting your shot!"

The guy said, "Because I'm going to lose no matter who I target, and you are an (rhymes with mass pole)."

Everyone in the room laughed and we never invited that programmer back (there were other programmers we played with, and they all found him to be a pain in the butt as well).

The other disruptive behavior I hate is the 'You're doing it wrong!' player. These are the players who will yell at someone for not playing the way they would play, or worse, won't play specifically so as to aide their own force. I've seen two instances of this, "I don't care if you are new to the game- you don't put your infantry out there like that you moron!" and "Put your forces in front of mine so that they get mowed down first and then I can come in with a fresh unit to counterattack!"

Indefensible.

There are loveable cheats.

I relate the following story. We were sitting around one day playing a game of Talisman (the original copy). At one point one gamer, let's call him Bob and another gamer, let's call him Rich, got into a fight.

Bob: YOU CAN'T DO THAT!

rich: Yes I can.

Bob: Taking the rule book and reading the relevant section said. "It doesn't say you can do that!"

Rich "It says it in my copy."

Bob (grasping the rule book firmly and handing it to Rich and saying "Show me I the rules."

thence progressed a long session in which Rich carefully went through the rules.

Finally he took out his pencil and began writing the rule into the rule book!

Needless to say everyone squaked and he couldn't do it He insisted it was in his rule-book at home with his game and we all told him to bring it in next time.

Next game he dutifully arrived with his rule book and showed us. The rule book was awash in red ink where he had annotated and added his own rules on LITERLLY EVERY free square quarter inch of the book. He proudly showed us the rule which had his contention there.

He did not see that him just writing it in made it a universal rule.

Still he was a good guy, a good gamer and we enjoyed these little pecadillios Rich would get himself into. Why If he wasn't the way he was I would not be able to relate the above delightful story to you!

People can be difficult all they want, just not at my gaming table.

I can tolerate a lot but once someone's behavior starts to become so annoying that others don't want to play that person is not invited back.

I have a zero tolerance for cheating though. Mistakes are one thing but blatant outright cheating in something like a wargame speaks volumes about that persons character. That is not someone I want wandering in my house.

No one is perfect – we are all human and subject to good days and bad days and sometimes do things we are not proud of. Also people change over time and bad habits can often change. So I try not to be too judgemental and hope that people give me the benefit of the doubt when I need it.

Having said that if someone really gets on my nerves I will avoid playing them

To paraphrase Conon O'Brien, everyone plays with a difficult gamer. If you don't, you are the difficult gamer.

How about someone who smells Really Bad.
Or the guy that eats greasy fried chicken and touches your figs.

I have gamed with guys who NEVER EVER interprete a rule in a way the does not favor their situation AT THAT TIME, but maybe the other way 10 minutes later.

I also gamed with a guy who cheated to lose, simply in order to screw over allies he didn't like.

Dilbert: "Avoid Meetings with time-wasting morons."

> Dilbert: "Avoid Meetings with time-wasting morons."

Is there any other kind?

anyone old enough to remember the song…."just walk away, Renee"?
got a few for you and NO..there is no defense for them.
1. "the drunk"
2. the dice thrower! had the privilege to participate in a game where a dispute between two of the players resulted in one doing such childhood behavior.
3. the winner…strange that the die thrower is one and the same. playing on one side along with my son, the same individual years earlier berated his/my tactics or lack of experience of both play and that set of rules. with a nod, and that old thousand yard stare discouraged him from ever playing in a game that i ran. still almost 20 years later will not play with the gentleman.
4. the expert…can pontificate and "enlighten" those more ignorant than he regarding everything, and doesnt mind letting them know.
5. and last….genious cloned offspring of the above, more suited to Big Bang theory…at the beginning of one of my FPW games brought it up to my attention that the Prussian Jagers were lacking a standard. shame on me…i hadn't noticed…and mistakenly thought they didnt carry them.
6. rules lawyers and win above all gamers.

play, make friends, have some fun…and above all…don't be a jerk…or if you have to…do it at work.

I can tolerate a lot from other folks. At least I think so. However, in a group setting where it's not my call, I will either do everything in my power to avoid the 'difficult gamer' or go find another group.

Had to do that with one guy. It simply wasn't worth the massive headaches caused by dealing with the guy. So I found another group, which is extremely unfortunate as it was a great group. Life is way to short for dealing with such in what is supposed to be my fun time.

They are such bad adverts for the hobby

Anyone making fun of my kid or berating a kid in general – NOT going to play with again. This is different from reminding the kid to behave of course.

Had one guy treat my son with less respect with others at the table (and I was making sure my son behaved already). Would never play with that guy again.

OK, a defense …

The Foghorn – I know several people like that who do so because they have tinnitus and hearing loss from military service or from battle as refugees in WWII. Often, the person doesn't realize that they are doing it.

All the other ones are deliberate actions. You choose what to critique and how much. You may not realize you have crossed the line between helpful and obnoxious (because that is such an objective thing). However, even unknowingly, I consider this to be a "active lack" of decorum … one does not care enough about others to recognize an obvious lack of decorum. While most people can't recognize the exact moment they "cross the line" (if there is such a thing), most people also are generally aware and catch on.

No Defense Whatsoever – Condescending to Kids. I was at a con game and SWMBO and DOM were playing (SOM was away at college). One of the people who had set up a game was taking an inordinate amount of interest in ensuring (16 year old) DOM (a veteran gamer) really, really understood what was going on. He picked up a figure and asked her saccharinely, "Do you know what this headgear is called?" At the same time he Barney-sung, "It's a pickle-helemet." She answered, "Ja, das ist eine picklehaube." (While I probably made a grammar and spelling mistake there, she, after four years of German, did not.)

Because sometimes they make you raise your standards.

etotheipi,
i would have paid good money to have witnessed the picklehaube incident! :-) just to have seen the smart
aleck's face when she replied!

you go girl! she had to have made you guys proud!

i would have paid good money to have witnessed the picklehaube incident! :-) just to have seen the smart
aleck's face when she replied!

It was priceless. That was seven or so years ago, but I can still see it as if I were still just about to drop my beer on the floor in pride.

Ah yes, Ubercommando; so inspirijng to see those standards fluttering in the wind.

Used to play this one guy who was guilty of Eye rolling and inhaling loudly when I made a move that he thought was wrong always drove me mad,then explaining to me why it's a bad move in a patronising fashion,and condescendingly telling me and everyone else in the room about how terrible I am for doing it. Quite simply a dick.

R1ch4rd, why did you play with him after the first time? Just part of the group? I would not have gamed with someone like that a second time, and most likely would have left in the middle of the first game.