Who asked this joker | 25 Mar 2015 11:32 a.m. PST |
The initial deployment at Quatre Bras by the Dutch units left a bit to be desired. Most of their heavy units were deployed west of the road with the massive 2nd brigade (4000+ men!) were deployed in the woods. The first brigade, mostly made up of militia, were deployed around Gemioncourt Farm. This left the 27th Jagers to cover an open field between the farm and the pond. The French actually made a recon with a lancer regiment (either the guards or Pire's lancers. I've seen accounts for both) to Quatre Bras and could potentially (or did! conflicts again) have entered the hamlet. This was after said lancers ran through the jagers and then back out again. It seems to me that this was not an optimal deployment. History tells us that it didn't matter as the English held out. However, the Dutch might have performed better with a different deployment. If I were Perponcher (Prince of Orange was not there to supervise the deployment) I would have swapped positions. 1st brigade would be tasked with holding the woods. they had considerably more light infantry and the militia might have been more emboldened to hold with the the cover of the woods. The 2nd brigade had 2 brigade sized regiments. 1 could have held the farm while the other could have covered the eastern area. there was even a company of jagers which could have been posted in Thyle to hold the flank. I also would post the artillery a bit further back so as not to get overrun. How about you? How would you deploy if you were in charge of the 2nd Netherlands division? |
vtsaogames | 25 Mar 2015 11:45 a.m. PST |
Perponcher's deployment made Ney and Reille wonder if they were facing the same old reverse slope tactics they had met in the Peninsula. I think delaying the French attack by bluff was more important than optimal placement. Within an hour of the French attack Picton and Brunswick arrived on the field. The French advantage in numbers nearly disappeared right then. |
Who asked this joker | 25 Mar 2015 11:56 a.m. PST |
One of the points missed that Ney gets criticized for is his tardiness for starting the attack. 14:30 is the agreed upon time. Reille had not completely assembled his corps around Frasnes until after noon…around 13:30. Reille had also cautioned Ney because of his experience with the British in Spain. This coming after the scouting report. So you would not change a thing Vincent? |
marshalGreg | 25 Mar 2015 2:10 p.m. PST |
WHen you consider: 1) Prince of Orange was inexperienced ( so keep it simple stupid in play) 2) timing of troop arrival 1st vs 2nd brigade 2) The Importance of the fact "to take advantage of poor visibility" to delay enemy as long as possible ( IE hidden movement/placement in affect/wide spread). 3) Protecting the corp's LOC 4) and lastly and most important- Orange does not know when the French attack will begin and where ( They all thought he would advance to the west of Bosso Wood)! My players set-ups have all found themselves to have come very close to what Perponcher had done on the Evening of the 15th/morning of the 16th after game debrief…..just saying MG |
Jcfrog | 25 Mar 2015 2:14 p.m. PST |
What did they really know? |
vtsaogames | 25 Mar 2015 3:02 p.m. PST |
So you would not change a thing Vincent? I'd set up the Gatlings in Gemioncourt. |
Who asked this joker | 25 Mar 2015 3:54 p.m. PST |
My players set-ups have all found themselves to have come very close to what Perponcher had done on the Evening of the 15th/morning of the 16th after game debrief…..just saying That's pretty interesting that the players sort of immitated Perponcher. Thanks for posting that. BTW, the question wasn't steeped in theory of who could see what. It is a simple question how would you make the deployment better? |
marshalGreg | 26 Mar 2015 9:40 a.m. PST |
@ WATJ I guess the point is that with the same intelligence that Perponcher had at the time one/I would find that something close to what he did as our set-up to be best. So that factor ( intelligence)is missing and the basis to influence one's response on what set-up the will choose and why. If you are 3000 giant and know exactly what is to happen and when then yes another set-up could be better/different. Being the Monday morning quarterback is easy and not very interesting. just saying… Perhaps the question should be presented differently… to see a more and interesting response. BTW Vtsaogame's response is stellar but where are the others…. MG |
Mick the Metalsmith | 26 Mar 2015 5:02 p.m. PST |
Militia in woods actually are harder to keep in place. Emboldened, not really. More likely to be able to break ranks and flee out of the sight of the NCO's and officers. Woods are not good places for units without self-motivation or initiative. Command control is weak, and woods are scary. |
EagleSixFive | 27 Mar 2015 3:32 a.m. PST |
"Militia in woods" Which makes placing the Nassau units in the Boi de Bossu quite sensible. If the French had sent any substantial forces up the Western side of the woods, there was a chance of redeploying elements of the Nassau force in a right hook. This could be done using the East/West track through the woods. |
Who asked this joker | 27 Mar 2015 5:52 a.m. PST |
If you are 3000 giant and know exactly what is to happen and when then yes another set-up could be better/different. Being the Monday morning quarterback is easy and not very interesting. just saying… This is the point of the question actually. How could he have deployed better. |
Ligniere | 27 Mar 2015 6:16 a.m. PST |
I would agree with Mick the Metalsmith, placing the militia in the woods might not be the right move – sticking them in the farms ensured they had nowhere to run to. It's like putting them into square surrounded by entrenchments. Sure some would cower in the corners, but the others would find it easier to fight to protect the few opening in the perimeter. Placing them in a wood gives them every opportunity to hide or remove themselves to the rear. Light troops potentially are best suited to both the woods and the buildings – but deploying the militia to the farms and buildings was a good move under the circumstances – nowhere to run. |
zaevor2000 | 28 Mar 2015 8:54 a.m. PST |
Ligniere makes an excellent point. Human nature is what it is… |