"How to value your collection for insurance purposes?" Topic

I'm thinking about getting my miniatures insured. Such a collection would not be covered by a normal house insurance, but in order to get a quote from a specialist insurer I need to have an idea of their value.

I could work on a general replacement cost, but that doesn't take into account the time and effort that I've put in to painting and basing them.

Any suggestions as to rules of thumb or other ways to work out what all your toy soldiers are worth?

First, use a camera to shoot or video your entire collection. I would think pictures are better, but some disagree that it is necessary.

Second, print out some Ebay sales or other references for painted figures replacement cost (painting services, maybe?) as well as some random catalog references. Then, if you are really energetic, make a spreadsheet and input values.

Thank you for your comments.

First, use a camera to shoot or video your entire collection. I would think pictures are better, but some disagree that it is necessary.

I don't really see what use a set of photos would be in a valuation exercise. They would only be useful to someone who knew what they were looking at and had some idea of their value anyway.

Second, print out some Ebay sales or other references for painted figures replacement cost (painting services, maybe?) as well as some random catalog references.

I THINK you are suggesting looking for similar stuff on eBay and then using prices there as a guide? Judging by some of the outrageous prices I have seen stuff selling for on eBay I would thibk that would probably end up producing a significant over-valuation.

You need photos to prove you own them. I know sometimes insurers do not demand that, but you are much, much safer if you have proof of your collection. This is especially true if you have either painted figures or rare figures.

Re Ebay, it is the market and the best evidence for something's value. You would want to print out evidence of SOLD items only, however.

You could always get some sort of professional to come in and value it, write up a short report, and then use that--you do that for jewelry, for example--but finding someone to do that in this field would be difficult.

Yea, photos really help eliminate a lot of issues around claims, those video stills should be just as good.

Getting appraisals would be a good idea as well.

You need photos to prove you own them. I know sometimes insurers do not demand that, but you are much, much safer if you have proof of your collection. This is especially true if you have either painted figures or rare figures.

Ah, OK. You are talking about making a claim. That makes sense but I need to actually insure them first!

Re Ebay, it is the market and the best evidence for something's value.

You really think eBay is the best evidence of something's value? It seems to me there are many idiots in the world who will pay many times the real value of something on eBay! Besides, I don't want to sell them, I want to know how much it would cost me to replace them in case of loss or destruction. I can calculate how much it would roughly cost to purchase replacement figures, but how do you estimate the value of the work you have put in to painting and basing?

I'm just guessing here but around £5.00 GBP per painted figure feels about right.

If you want to validate your estimate look to Figure Painting outfits and find one that matches your own painting ability and work out how much it would cost to replace what you have.

You can screen shot the 'evidence' quickly enough and that should satisfy any insurer.

Getting appraisals would be a good idea as well.

What do you mean by getting an appraisal?

I agree, Ebay is wonky sometimes, so you will want to stay away from extremes, BUT if you are trying to establish a value/replacement cost, you need something to back up your estimate. Look at this way--do you want to have nothing to back up your estimate when your insurer shows you an Ebay report that is at the other (low) end of the spectrum?

An appraisal would mean getting someone with "credentials" or verifiable experience to issue a written opinion on the collection's value. The guys who runds Hinds Ltd, or Gajo, or some other retailer of painted figures could work. Again, that is how insuring jewelry and art and such works--an expert gives you an estimate of value and that is what you give the insurer to figure out the amount of insurance you need.

What the insurance company is looking for is replacement cost. How much would it cost you to replace your minis collection? Tough question. Look at various painting services to get an idea of how much it costs, even if you painted them yourself.

Thanks for your comments, OB

I'm just guessing here but around £5.00 GBP GBP per painted figure feels about right.

But what size of figure is that? 28mm? What about figures in other sizes? I have 6mm, 15mm and 20mm as well!

If you want to validate your estimate look to Figure Painting outfits and find one that matches your own painting ability and work out how much it would cost to replace what you have.

Any suggestions as to possible painting companies? Isn't most of that done in the Far East these days? I'd be rather wary of sending large heavy packets of figures abroad for painting. Sadly, I've heard a few too many scare stories.

BUT if you are trying to establish a value/replacement cost, you need something to back up your estimate.

So, the insurer won't accept your own valuation? The insurance company I'm looking at offers a free quotation and simply asks for the total value of the collection. So how can you verify a valuation?

You talk about getting an expert to assess the value, but surely a valuer would be giving an estimate of their worth in terms of what they might fetch at auction (you know, like "Bargain Hunt" on the TV). Again, I don't want to sell them, I want to replace them. I also suspect that valuers who understand the real value of toy soldiers are very few and far between.

I looked into this some time ago. At the time I valued my collection as worth over £60,000.00 GBP The cost of insurance for a 'specific collection' separate to general insurance was far too much. I was advised to have a word with my general insurance company, add it to my general contents insurance, and get them to confirm amounts of cover, and what was covered and when (accidental damage, loss off premises, excess, etc.) in writing before adding to the premium.

You might find this a cheaper option than going to a bespoke insurance.

Beware, if you have £100,000.00 GBP worth of stuff and insure it for £50,000.00 GBP and have £50,000.00 GBP worth stolen, you will get £25,000.00 GBP because you insured everything for half its value.

I have worked on the basis of raw lead and unbuilt kits, much easier to work out and (relatively) uncontestable.

It is still an alarmingly large number.

It is still an alarmingly large number.

Too true.

I looked into this some time ago.

I have worked on the basis of raw lead and unbuilt kits,

Thanks olicana and Martin – very useful advice from you both.

I sent some basic information to my insurance provider and asked him to add a $1,000 USD "personal property" rider on my policy, mostly to cover the irreplaceable stuff in my collection in the event of a catastrophe. I didn't bother trying to enumerate it specifically.

Patrick makes a good point--you can sometimes purchase a non-specific rider up to a certain amount without much supporting detail. If you have a large collection, it would not be enough, but it would be enough for smaller collections or if you did not want to pay the cost for true replacement coverage under an expensive policy.

First, check with your insurance company to see what they require. Most have specific requirements and limits for art and artistic collections, since insurance fraud is pretty common in this area. Video or photo your whole collection up close and in detail. Document the types and manufacturers, then get an independent written appraisal from a professional painter familiar with the gaming market. You may have to pay them a few bucks, but that will be money well spent if something unfortunate occurs. Send the whole packet to your insurance company with proof of delivery and a hard copy to a close friend for safe keeping, then upload everything on-line where you can access it remotely and prove the date it was created. Don't count on your insurance finding your inventory later. It is more convenient for jaded adjusters to "loose" it just when you need it the most.

I spoke with my insurance folks not too long about updating my policy. As it turned out, the person I spoke with collected MtG cards and was familiar with wargame miniatures. :)

Anyway, make sure you have "full replacement" value, meaning what it would cost to get them completely replaced tomorrow: painted and all.

That is significantly higher, but at a minimum look at some of the miniature painting services' prices and guesstimate from there.

Photos are great to back it up, of course, but the documentation is really more for your reference in the event ofa catastrophe.

I would look at the current price per miniature. From the original seller/company if possible. Otherwise options, such as Ebay remain, however you might view them, about your only option for out of production items. Next I would place the following value for painting… $2.00 USD per 15mm figure, $5.00 USD per 25mm figure.
You do need to photograph your collection. Remember, you're trying to cover your collection through an insurance company. However you may feel about having to jump through hoops, if you fail to do so you will regret it later.

My house and contents insurer has provision for adding a collection to the general insurance without the requirement for a valuation which, given the amount, worries me a little in the event I do need to make a claim.

They have quite a good reputation, but I have been careful to keep the email and paper copies of receipts of all my purchases for the past ten years to at least establish a pattern of spending over that period, and started a blog where I have been storing pictures of my completed units for the past couple of years.

Possibly the other thing to consider is whether you might need portable insurance, in case something is stolen from a car or convention. Mine is the standard that comes with my policy, which I hope should be enough to cover at least a large storage box of figures.

Document the types and manufacturers, then get an independent written appraisal from a professional painter familiar with the gaming market.

What professional painters offer this kind of service?

Anyway, make sure you have "full replacement" value, meaning what it would cost to get them completely replaced tomorrow: painted and all.

Well, that's exactly the problem. How do I calculate "full replacement" value?

Next I would place the following value for painting… $2.00 USD USD per 15mm figure, $5.00 USD USD per 25mm figure.

Your figures seem somewhat at odds with OB's estimate of £5.00 GBP per figure (assuming he meant 25/28mm) above?

You do need to photograph your collection. Remember, you're trying to cover your collection through an insurance company. However you may feel about having to jump through hoops, if you fail to do so you will regret it later.

As I have said before, I can understand the need for photographs to provide evidence for a claim, but what help are they in the valuation process?

No sense insuring them if you aren't prepared to file a claim.

If you do that, your just wasting your money, since they'll deny it, and you'll have nothing to argue/contest your point with.

Figure on today's current lead prices, for the same minis, or similar quality, if they are no longer available from the original source (note – OOP usually makes them more valuable to collectors, so you might want to factor that in).

Yes, get quotes from several professional painting services for what they charge to paint the minis, to the quality level you have.

Cleaned, primed, and based, with a single colored base coat of paint usually runs at least 1.0X the price of the original lead.

For an average paintjob, your talking at least 2.0X the cost of the lead.

You need to add in the price of the minis to the above as well, so 2.0X to 3.0X the original price of the unpainted minis.

Detail work over and above a basic paint job quickly escalates to 5.0X – 10.0X the price of the minis, if painted to a "collector's standard", so you'll need to consider that as well.

As mentioned, getting insurance coverage just for the minis will probably be cost-prohibitive in short order, unless you are wealthy, so you need to consider that too.

Replacement value will be for similarly detailed, and sized miniatures currently available in the marketplace.

Some minis and models are priceless, since they are no longer made, at least to those that own them.

I doubt the insurance company/agent will agree with you on that point.

My value for painting miniatures is based on what I charge.

Dean West (of "Johnny Reb" fame) who was an Insurance Agent wrote an article a number of years ago in one of the hobby magazines about insuring one's collection. His main point was to have your collection appraised in great detail by someone highly knowledgeable in the value of your collection. Gaming figures fall into the class of "Valuable, Rare, Collections" such as coin collections not works of ART! Having two such appraisals is even better!

The main point is to have such an appraisal be fully "detailed" listing the manufacturer of the figures, what was used to paint them, in detail, what that work actually would cost in today's money and if the collection would grow in value in time based on reasonable expectation of the market etc. The more informed the detail included the better!! You also, need to detail how the collection is used, how often, stored, transported, and otherwise protected from loss. Then, of course, a complete set of photos is essential of all of those!

The more detail you have the easier it will be to have any claim paid! You'll need to have a rider added to both your home and auto policy to ensure complete coverage, especially if you routinely transport the figures to games away from home! Also, it won't hurt every couple of years or so to have your appraisal updated! Do your homework, and the insurance company will have no excuse if you, ever need to file a claim!

Don't just "assume" your home owners policy automatically covers such valuable collections, as that coverage actually amounts to nothing more then pennies on the dollar after the insurance company determines what it values the item to be worth!!

Yes, frequently HO policies limit "valuables" to as little as $1,000 USD, or so.

Personally, I think at least three estimates/appraisals/price comparisons are necessary, and five would be better.

Of course, that is probably cost-prohibitive, or impossible. Therefore, the next best thing if the miniatures are still produced is to print out a listing of the minis you have, including their costs.

If they are out of production, get the prices for products from 3 – 5 manufacturers, of similar quality.

Also, get 3 – 5 professional painters' price sheets. That'll help with replacement cost valuation, should you need to file a claim at a later date.

Also, make sure your insurance provides for "replacement costs", and not just what you paid for them.

With the above, you should at least be able to get a mid-range valuation for your collection, instead of a low-ball one you will be unhappy with.

By the time I detailed my collection I would be about 160 years old.

No sense insuring them if you aren't prepared to file a claim.

Absolutely agree, but I can only take one step at a time and the first step is getting a quotation and for that I need a way of calculating the value.

My value for painting miniatures is based on what I charge.

OK, so what do you charge?

Has anyone actually taken out a specific policy for your collection? If so, what insurer did you choose and how did you calculate a valuation?

It seems to me from all the very helpful comments above that a lot of people have thought about what is involved in insuring a collection but no-one has actually done so?

I was thinking of 15mm Major because that's what I paint.

I don't use painters so I cannot help there but there was a chap called JR Cronin who used to advertise he was UK based and I think Olicana Lad (above)offers a painting service.

You have raised an interesting question I wish I could be of more help. Do keep us informed.

£5.00 GBP per painted 15mm figure?

Cripes! My armies are worth a fortune!

Does seem a lot though. If you use Mako11's rule of thumb of 3x the price of the bare casting and a 15mm figure is about 40p from the likes of Peter Pig then that only works out at ~£1.20 per figure …

Well look at these

link

As you can see this standard is £2.50 GBP excluding the figure? If you want more you can pay for it and I assume they can do it.

It depends what you want to replace.

This sort of issue seems to be coming up in my house more and more as in
"Dad -what are we going to do with your soldiers when you die…"

Perhaps to save you some effort, you might also ask what the cost is per $1,000 USD, or $10,000 USD to insure them annually, and then to determine if it is worth it.

You may find that you prefer to have the cash allocated to insurance premiums available for new figures, and/or replacements and other things, instead.

That would save you a lot of work up front.

link

Nashville, thank you for the link. However, it is of no use to me as I am in the UK. (You may not have noticed that this thread is posted on the "British Wargaming" board.)

I'm still looking for anyone that has actually done this (insured their collection). So far without success …

This is based on my experience in Australia as opposed to the time I spent in the UK, but I found that the industry appeared fairly similar in both countries (although the premiums seemed lower in the UK, probably because of increased competition).

I insured mine through my general policy as a 'Specified Content', listed as a 'Miniature Military Figurine Collection'. I listed it as such rather than 'Wargames Figures' as I found it easier to explain to the insurance company that way.

I did shop around for insurance at one stage, but found that other insurers either didn't understand what I was after, or wanted to get the collection valued. The issue with the latter was the potential difficulty in finding an independent valuation from someone unconnected with me but who would be acceptable to an insurance company.

A professional valuer probably wouldn't know where to start, whereas my belief was that a valuation from a fellow hobbyist, even those painting for a living, could be challenged in the event of a claim especially as the collecting of model soldiers is more esoteric than, for example, the collection and valuation of antiques.

In the end I basically just used roughly (probably slightly over) twice the raw lead value for the painted figures on the basis that this would be easier to substantiate in the event of a claim, given that I have held on to most of the invoices and receipts for the figures themselves and especially as any valuation higher than this is probably going to be subjective anyway and open to challenge.

Where I have paid for painted figures this should be easier however, as I have kept the invoices or e-bay receipts for those as well.

In the end it only added a few hundred dollars to my annual policy, which I believe is worth it for an increased peace-of mind.