"Cold Wars 2016 Lancaster Host Policy Change " Topic

I went to make reservations for CW16 and was not allowed to do it over the phone..

The cancellation policy has changed to 30 days from 2 days AND they want a signature on record.

So I had to fax over my forms and have them call me back for CC information.

They must have got burnt with a 48 hour policy and a mega snow storm prediction.

That is my only guess…

-Mike

Red Roof is right across the street…

Red Roof? It has been years since I've attended at the Host. Is the Red Roof the former MacIntosh Inn? I think that was the name of the place across the street that I stayed at before.
Mike

Well, that's the hazard of operating a hotel. This is the hotel that when the electric went out and the toilets didn't work, they informed me there would be no refund (this at 4pm or so) even if the electric didn't come back on.

This is the first time in all the years of attending HMGS cons at the Host that I finally came to the conclusion that they need to find a new venue for the show in Eastern PA. Note, this is not a push to leave the area, just there has to be better venues with more to offer those willing to spend the weekend attending the show.

First, I feel that the Host doesn't care about itself or it's property. With each show, I see more and more broken stuff that doesn't get fix from the show before. There are many of the staff that I like, and who over the past years have worked hard to serve and help the quest, but I am finding that they too a tired of the Host.

Two, I am tired of the venue, as it has nothing new to offer, except rising food prices and lower quality. Even given the area, what new is there to see or do? There are a few stores that I would like to go to after the show, but find myself with out the energy to even care to make the short trip.

I see the HOST venue as an out dated building that makes the HMGS con look more like a garage sale than a convention with a hobby that has something to offer both educationally and emotionally.

When I talked to Russ at a rest area on the turn pike he said almost exactly the same thing.

I disagree, but then I don't ever stay at the host. I think the area is fine. As a vendor I have a nice variety of restaurants there, there may or may not be much else to do but since I'm either vending or gaming almost the whole time, or BSing with friends, I don't really care about that. I guess people mention that there is stuff for the kids to do there in the summer, but that is irrelevant with Cold Wars and Fall In.

I guess if a similar venue could be found in or near Lancaster or Philly, I wouldn't be opposed to moving but the Host meets all of my needs for the convention. Some areas could have better lighting for a game but I wouldn't expect the host to rewire and put more lights in just for gaming.

HMGS could improve that by bringing some flood lights for those areas. Or something similar.

The Red Roof Inn?

What a dump, it used to be nice when it first opened, but not anymore.

I Love Lucy era furniture (there is nowhere in the rooms to put your clothes, you have to live out of your suitcase), spotty at best internet connection, hard as a rock or soft as a marshmallow mattresses, paper thin pillows, TV's with lousy channel selection, crappy "free" breakfast, plus they jack up their weekend rates during Cold Wars just to stick it to you, not to mention it's pet friendly and it never fails that there's a barking dog in the area keeping me up half the night.

On and speaking of the night, on weekends they'd be better served renting their rooms by the hour, a lot of horizontal entertainment and relating in a non verbal manner, that's for sure, the walls there are paper thin.

No thanks, yet another dump in Lancaster.

The WBC got tired of the host too and are moving to just south of Pittsburg.

WBC?

Grimm

World Boardgaming Championships.

link

Red Roof may be a dump but they don't have delusions of adequacy like the Host has.

When I go to the cons I stay at the Marriott a few miles away. Up to the last minute cancellation, better rates, and hot breakfast.

The parent company of the Host is Milestone Companies, here's their mission statement:

Milestone seeks to acquire full-service and focused-service hotels that have superior geography, dependable cash flow, represent a discounted value as measured by a capitalization rate or replacement cost, and may be operationally enhanced through economies of scale and aggressive sales and marketing initiatives. Milestone invests in both branded and independent properties, and has developed a specific expertise in the meetings, convention and banqueting business.

Milestone seeks to develop and construct hotels through the implementation of adaptive re-use techniques in urban areas and suburban commercial centers.

They purchased the Host in 2005, and at the time invested about $5 USD-6 million. That would amount to about $22 USD/SF. That didn't buy you very much in 2005, basically cosmetics. Bring that forward ten years, and the guts of the building, it's heating, cooling, plumbing and electrics, are now in a deplorable state.

BTW – Milestone have no problems divesting of properties once they've seen better days,

Properties previously owned by Milestone but subsequently sold include….. the Days Inn Louisville South (Shepherdsville, KY), sold in February 2008; the Microtel Inn & Suites Sulphur (Sulphur, LA), sold in November 2008; the Clarion Deland (Deland, FL), sold in April 2013 and the Best Western Utica (Utica, NY), sold in December 2013.

However, I did notice that they were advertising for a position of Sales Manager for the Host, which shows that, at least, for the immediate future they believe the property is marketable for them.

But the reality is that the physical facility is way past it's prime, becoming engulfed locally by more and better quality hotels, and that they are fast losing the conference/convention market to other local hotels, and of course the Lancaster Convention Center in downtown – a location that prices itself out of reach of organizations such as HMGS. Our gaming community, led by HMGS are, unfortunately, caught between a rock and a hard place.

What are the dates for Cold Wars next year?

What are the dates for Cold Wars next year?

I believe they are the 18-20 March, 2016

The Lancaster convention facility also has inadequate parking for the place. I seem to recall reading a local article some years ago how it was mainly sitting empty.

HMGS is between a rock and a hard place because it chooses to be. It puts on more games (space intensive) that it can support by the number of people attending. Since they don't manage their gaming areas, they really have no idea what they do and don't need. The dealer area is relatively fixed in space required, the rest – not so much. In short, HMGS does not do a very good job of managing or understanding its primary business – putting on games. Thus they only think in terms of what they have (space-wise) and similar sized facilities. So in that regards, they are between a rock and hard place.

I believe any downtown facility will tend to have parking issues – either availability, hours of operation or cost – and the LCC certainly has issues there.

A few years back I analyzed a typical convention Saturday, based on games played, and numbers of players and peak hours of play. I used an HMGS PEL for this purpose. I identified about 160 games with a requirement for about 1200 players. The peak start times were 9 and 10 AM, 2 PM and 6 PM, offering about 25 new games per session at those times. The average game ran 4 hours, and the most concurrent games ran in the midday period, 10 AM through 2 PM. The greatest number of games running at any one time were about 60, accommodating about 480 players. There were peaks and troughs of activity throughout the day, much as you'd expect. What the reality was, how many games ran, which were under or over-subscribed I couldn't say. But clearly, the information to develop such analysis is available.

Assuming a typical game requires about 300 SF to accommodate the table, and players around it, at the peak of sixty games 18,000 SF is actually being used for gaming. Double that, to account for tables in transition, setup or takedown, or otherwise, and you're looking for about 36,000 SF.

Not sure how big the tennis barn, at the Host, is, possibly about 25,000 SF.

So, by my math, HMGS actually need about 25,000 SF of exhibition space, about 36,000 SF of conference space, parking for about 1,200 cars, and immediate accommodation of a maximum of 1500-2000 hotel rooms.

I would point out there is nothing wrong with not offering possible slots to everyone on site at any given time. The result, in part, of offerring so many games has been to undermine the pre-reg/ticket system. Note there were not a lot of games at CW, yet there were few complaints posted about that.

I know that one school of thought is, if we have the space fill it with whatever, but then you get whatever types of games filling the con. There a number of side rooms that are not filled at CW and FI, especially when the main gaming area is half empty.

This policy change is the straw that broke the camel's back for me. I am done staying at the Host.

I do wonder if there is any penalty to HMGS if they don't fill a certain amount of rooms?

I'd like to see Fall IN go back to Gettysburg – cold wars too – if they'd fit

For what reason? The Ike is just another smallish dump, with a much worse attitude than the Host.

I'd like to see Cold Wars and FallIn move to the Atlantic City or Wildwood convention center – simply due to them being in easy driving distance.

"I'd like to see Fall IN go back to Gettysburg – cold wars too – if they'd fit"

Same dump (and more expensive with a lousy attitude) and absolutely zip in the way of alternate hotels or restaurants within a reasonable distance. Yeah, that would be a real upgrade…

I have never stayed at the Host, so cannot comment on that aspect. The facilities for events seems adequate if poor.

The con should never be scheduled before March 15 as the chance and impact of bad weather is too high. I will never come if it is that early, again. Next year is better timing.

Now that the summer games are moved so far east and south, why not give the midwest a better chance to attend by having one of the smaller cons more westward -- closer to Pittsburgh.

I find the 30 day prior time frame too much. Hard to believe.

Apparently holding the show later in March would not have worked this year. Lancaster had snow on Friday 3/20 with plenty of wrecks from ice Friday/Saturday. Just a strange winter………………..

Setting the Host aside, don't overreact to the weather. In 25 years coming to the Cold Wars,(my first con CW1990) I can remember 3 snow events that have impacted the convention.

Xin

Yep Xintao. The funny thing is that we have had almost as many winter weather events for Fall In over the years. Things happen.

I thought the masking tape used to cover the wide gash in the carpet on the main staircase was a nice touch.

The Management of the Host doesn't seem to worry about safety any more. It's a good thing someone from the convention staff shoveled the snow away from the exit doors of the dealer hall so everyone could get out in case of a fire. (Thanks Eugene!)

Yknow Atlantic City is not crazy. They will often effectively subsidize an event hoping to make it up on the other kind of gaming

I sure hope we do not consider the Jersey coast for our events. This will add 2+ hours for many attendees, extra traffic challenges not to mention union challenges for the vendors etc.

I stayed at the Host and really for the first time since 1992 was not happy with it. Friday I received and email from the Host with a survey which lets them know just what I feel. Don't know if anyone else got the survey but perhaps that shows an interest in the place by ownership.

It did not appear that way when I was at the Host this year. The one thing I can't be sure and blame the Host for as all the light bulbs were gone from my room. Really don't know if the last person to stay their took them or not. I kind of doubt it though and think the room had just been used for parts for other rooms. The 3 rooms around my room had the locks and doorknobs off them.
I do not know if their is a perfect fit for the convention as far as place to have it anymore.

Scott, things maybe fine at where you are at in the dealer hall, but talk to those that are near the doors. It becomes a different story.

The back double doors don't close properly any more, which means that there is always a cold draft at the back of the dealer hall. The big doors are getting more and more banged up. This year we had vehicles parking and unloading in our area, which meant that we had to deal with a puddle of water in our booth for most of the show.

I understand that we are only there to do business, but face it a place that is a little more brighter and well maintained will do more everyone's business and games that what the host has to offer now.

I was never one to say things were bad with the Host, but with the last couple of shows, I have found that Host has a very poor response to it's customers. Prices are going up and the quality, in my opinion is going down. At least this show I had a warm room, the last two Fall-Ins, the rooms had very little heat in them.

Lastly, have you ever notice that retail stores make changes in lay out and how merchandise is displayed. The reason is that increases consumer involvement. I know we all hate change, but often change can be good for all involved.

What's the name of the place just to the East of the Host and on the same side of the road? Or does it even exist anymore?

The Classic is just east of the Host and is still there. The Congress/Passport was the next one over and was torn down several years ago.

Does anyone know why they removed the locks? Did they start to upgrade the hardware and run out of money? Can anyone in the hospitality industry shed any light on this?

Only a guess but in my opinion the Host is striping parts as replacements.
The locksets are not cheap and replacements may be hard to come by. So when some fail it'll be less expensive to strip them from unused rooms than update all 300+ rooms.
That number of rooms for a successful hotel might present a maintenance nightmare – for the Host its got to be an even greater challenge

Man, that's depressing.

On another thread re: The Host, one poster mentioned that on a walk around the property he counted 33 rooms missing door hardware. That's about 10% of the Host's rooms being out of action. Couple with their other problems (leaking roof, doubtful plumbing, etc), not a good situation…

Here is the latest update on the neighboring Fairfield Suites. link

Interesting that the value of this new building will almost exceed the value of the host facility.

tick, tick, tick – where is HMGS on this situation?

@Doug,

What I find ridiculous about the Fairfield Suites zoning text change, which enables them to build higher – is that it has everything to do with the size of the lot they're building on…..

It shocks me that this group didn't knock on the Host's door, and simply ask, 'hey, can we buy that tennis barn and increase our lot size…. then we can build an as-of-right hotel [bigger footprint, but not as tall] on the site we just acquired'.

Actually, the approach should have come from the Host, the sale would have paid for carpet, a few more door locks, and a new hot water boiler…. of course it wouldn't have helped HMGS and the dealer hall situation.

tick, tick, tick – where is HMGS on this situation?

HMGS aren't saying a word. They're afraid of the Amish Mafia…. Hahahaha

I am thinking the HMGS' solution is that if you dont talk about it that IT will go a way?

and my research, recently done on Tuesday night, is that Lebanon Levi is in trouble and cant be bothered about the Lancaster host right now. :-)

Grimm

Observations of the Host @ Cold Wars – The direction of the trend line here is, to put it mildly, not encouraging. A prudent organization should be intensively seeking a new venue.

B

"tick, tick, tick – where is HMGS on this situation?"

why ask that here? This isn't the HMGS site and rarely do any of them participate in any of the discussions; never in an official capacity, which response would be the only one worth consideration.

In fact, HMGS already went through a pretty exhaustive search of venues back when H'con was on the move. So it wouldn't take much effort to find some kind of new venue based on their prior work. As for the Host (in it's ever decaying glory), there doesn't seem to be much indication of it's imminent demise. My feeling is that the Host's management group will wring that sucker dry before giving up…

The powers that be hardly respond on their own official website either. So why not here? This is a discussion thread related to the Host and HMGS, right? Or in your opinion, shouldn't anything HMGS related be posted to TMP?

I suspect the final sale and demise of the Host will occur rather quickly. With declining attendance, this is a opportune time to trade up in quality but downsize in facility. Let the market of more attendees push it to a large facility – if and when that occurs.

I think I'll look at other lodging options at future HMGS cons held there.

Go west young man….attend Little Wars