"Sock Puppet Accounts Locked" Topic

…as the LL.B in the UK does (post-graduate Law, requiring prior degree).

There is no need for a prior degree to undertake the LL.B. It is a 3 year undergrad degree. If you have a degree already you undertake the GDL to convert your previous degree to a law degree (which is what I did).

You then need to take either the LPC (solicitor route) or BVC (barrister route). This is postgraduate level study. I then undertook the additional modules to expand my LPC into the LL.M (law masters).

11 years sounds long. If I went straight through full time (LL.B, LPC, training contract) I could be fully qualified in 6… as the GDL is a conversion it is only a one year course, so 7.

Geoff – nah…he wasn't at uni all that time.

he got one degree ( his BA in Wargames Rules one assumes), went out and "did stuff", then went back to a different school and got a law degree.

..

my LLB course was post-grad only…. it was 20 odd years ago mind you.

Defo a straight forward undergrad, only entry requirements relate to A levels, not a previous degree:

link

The GDL does require a previous degree, as it converts that degree to a law degree, but it's still considered undergrad level.

The LPC (vocational element of solicitor training) is postgrad.

I'd have to do a little research to see how the American system compares. We had a couple of Americans on my GDL doing English law.

Well it wasn't a standard course from the get-go: it was restricted to "law enforcement and other agencies" .. but was defo a 3-year conversion (part-time) requiring prior non-law degree… operated out of different Unis depending on location (Mine was Aston)

/em shrugs

I never finished it anyway… I swapped to a degree in "Learning how to walk again after fracturing your back" … couldn't qualify by the time that came to pass… and was no longer in law enforcement anyway. /em shrugs

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Given Doobries prior B.A. it could be either… might also depend on actual school looking at Wiki… J.D. looks like a straightforward "first law degree" though to me… the prior BA is a red herring.

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Edit: yes, ive got nothing better to do as i am bored senseless watching CCTVs of laser-cutters and changing sheets every 2 hours *yawntastic*

Wait! You got lasers cutters to watch? All I have is this darned desktop I'm trying update. I wish I had your thrilling life, but I'm always doomed to watch the real jet-setters from the economy seats . . .

;)

Shawn.

Shawn – heh yeah..

one monitor split-screen with 4 cctvs, 1 with re-runs of Spartacus series, the other one with TMP… with some 3d print work on the actual physical desk…

…and not enough hands.

there's more drama on here then on the spartacus series mind you…

waiting for new episode of Black Sails, up too date with Vikings, Walking Dead et al… … a while yet for GoT.

Not sure I know – or care – who's qualified for what, to be honest (I have the three degrees, but only on vinyl and a 'best of' on CD*….).

But the question of 'what the expected or desired outcome should be' is a good one, I think.

What to do: what – to – do…

Fortunately (or unfortunately, depending on your opinion of what's going on here) no one in this 'conversation' has the power to do anything whatsoever, save Bill – who can dig out all the dirty socks and bury them – and individual clients/potential clients who could refuse to support the trader or, alternatively, chose to 'not care' and buy whatever they want.

"We" can't decide what to do because "we" don't agree what the problem is (or even if there is a problem at all). And – even if that was decided – "we" are largely powerless to do anything abut it.

In the end, unless someone fancies pursuing Khurasan/Larry/Jon/Porfirio Rubirosa/+ 40 others (delete as applicable) in court for any of his actions (whether they are successful in that endeavour or not), all we can really do is sit here and talk to the wall.

Such is the joy of the web.

I have some very nice toys from Khurasan (exhibit 'A', m'lud)

Designed, I assume, by the very talented John Bear Ross; cast by… well someone else; given to Kevin Dallimore by the retailer for painting services rendered and then given to me by Kevin as a mate for a favour and because that was the only way they were going to get actually painted any time soon (Kevin is a very, very busy man…).

I painted them, built an army list around them for Slammers and promoted the heck out of them as they are fine bits of kit.

Oh well… I don't suppose I'll be buying any extra detachments any time soon.

The whole thing is a shame and – what's more galling – it seems to be an unnecessary shame: look at the models… they're Grrrrrreat! (as Tony the Tiger used to say…)

As others have implied in this thread, the hobby is small enough, for chrissakes. Why do any of us have to excrete on our own doorsteps?

When it comes to legal outcomes and the qualifications of some of the major players in this 'drama', my opinion of the legal system (particularly the US legal system) could best be summarised by this classic clip YouTube link so – when it comes to understanding people's motivations for doorstep detritus – I'm probably at a distinct disadvantage…

John T

* Not true, of course: not really my cup of tea, musically… YouTube link

Who makes the rather nice mag-lev train thingy in the background?

Well, This has all gotten rather sordid.

It throws KM's past behaviors into a different light, including a repeated tendency to have "just the thing" for an ongoing discussion about what "someone" might be looking for.

It also explains why "Jon" (another name similar to a competitor?) repeatedly stated that he would remain a one-man business. Three people can keep a secret if two of them are dead, as the saying goes.

Not that it matters, but I now retract my previous insinuations (back on page 1).

Can we have a quick poll ? How many people were thinking of buying a product but were put off by this supposed sock – puppetry?

Whereupon TrenchRaider responded:

Not I.

I don't think I have ever been put off from buying something due to sock puppetry, but I was put off from buying some of the security posts that BME actually had done, and had for sale; simply because of his attitude towards people with medical issues, on this site.

FYI, in the U.S. you need to get your undergraduate degree before you can be admitted to law school, which is a doctorate level course of study. It's not uncommon for people to switch careers and attend law school long after graduation.

"then GCHQ probably has my phone in a big fat file somewhere, I'm sure."
I looked at your file this morning and we are not overly concerned. Except your Mrs does seem to order a lot of takeaways…

GCHQ. Always listening to our customers.

Who makes the rather nice mag-lev train thingy in the background?

Jed: that is a tram car

link

under a fiver on amazon. I bought four and built some track and a station.

John T

Aww, I missed the opportunity to promote myself on post 299… guess I will have to hang out until we hit 399

Here's the Aston Uni entry requirements for LL.B: link

I get an error page on that link Geoff – but you are right -my LL.B at Cardiff was definitely my first degree, in 1977.

Cheers John, bit of a bargain that – seems to be perfectly sized for 15mm?

"Robert Kennedy"….. isn't it remarkable how frequently you appear hot on the heels of posts by the Editor in Chief? Perhaps you'd care to enlighten us as to how in this thread your posts have added any value to the debate whatsoever other than to help drive the thread one step further towards the next pagination?

I wonder what your IP address is then eh…?

I have been a regular visitor to TMP since the 1990s. For a long time I was content to be a background observer, only a couple of years ago signing up as a member. Since then I've posted a fair number of times on mainly historical/product related issues – including being critical of some of KM's ranges for what that's worth. Whilst I frequent Frothers from time to time, as I do many other wargaming related websites (actually others far more so eg. Fanaticus, LAF), I am not a member there (of FU-UK). So, do NOT presume to assume I am a partizan of any other site and I have enough wits to form my own opinion thanks.

Editor in Chief/Bill, exactly how much would you have really cared two hoots about KM's sock-puppetry shenanigans if it hadn't been for the Da_Bish and/or Larry Dunn connections? KM being so prolific, he must have generated a whole heap of web traffic to satisfy your advertising/business model in the last few years… and as is well known, you treated Mr Dunn as a complete joke for a heck of a long time. Whilst you claim not to to, I do remember why he was thrown off TMP – you turned on him when you yourself/TMP finally became a target of his spleen. So is this a case of super sleuthing? Hardly. This whole story smacks of personal revenge from an individual who seems to bear awfully long grudges and several other instances in recent years would reinforce that assertion with compelling similarity. And you do appear to spend goodness only knows how much time trawling numerous discussions on other websites to see if anyone mentions TMP or your name. And all this from a man who couldn't even own up to his own "alternate identity" until "compelling" evidence and pressure forced you to do so…

Whilst the KM sock-puppetry leaves a bit of a bad taste let's get some perspective here, it's hardly that big a deal in the grand scheme of things is it?

Compared to… hmmm, well lets see… advocating blatant xenophobia / racism / sexism (I'm sorry, I think the relevant poster needs to check the definition of this – I've seen more misogyny here on TMP than on any other wargaming site across the globe!) / holocaust denial / climate change denial… exaggerating about one's military service record… the same blowhards threatening physical harm to other members if their personal ethics differ from those of the extreme far right… allowing all of this to go unchecked on your own website whilst blatantly silencing others… or posting links to material about paedophilia because you think it's funny (which by the standards of most people I know from many diverse parts of the social/political spectrum would be considered deeply offensive and legally questionable)…???

So for all the TMPers keen to back-slap the Editor in Chief on the back over his latest supposed victory in the fight for "wholesome family-friendly values" and to preach about "integrity"… I ask you directly, do you really think all the things I've mentioned above are ethically acceptable then? Or are we just supposed to turn a blind eye to all that stuff that might sit less than "comfortably"?

And there are a number of 15mm suppliers who are at the very least obviously rubbing their hands in this thread with evident glee behind thinly veiled protestations… whether directly involved or not, doesn't anyone else think they doth protest just a tad too much?

There is a rich (and saddening) irony that a TMP member, in the last few days made a statement regarding somebody who "deliberately deceive[s] his customer base and fraudulently disparage[s] others, while at the same time trying to damage the reputations of prominent members of the [TMP) community by misleading the public into assuming these persons have stated things or hold opinions which they did not say and do not hold." Sounds familiar indeed – tho' maybe not just in the conveniently blinkered way the poster intended… And you may wonder why people ask the same fundamental questions about TMP time and time again? And on that note, please, let's drop the Frother obsession once and for all, it's a pitiful cop out that gets rolled out every time to divert attention – this is being discussed elsewhere by others too.

So, what the ?!!! I use that phrase very intentionally – in sheer exasparation at what is going on here, not because I am some "potty mouthed juvenile" – don't assume that and keep any moralistic judgements out of it please. I don't use my given name and I am fully entitled to do so without anyone pontificating about my motives – I do it to offer some limited protection for my family and my professional life which is totally separate from my hobby; and yet in this guise I still seek to equally write and speak in a sincere and genuine way. I am just as "decent, legal, honest and truthful" and my "reputation" is just as important to me too…

But I fear despite any attempt to offer up a cogent, sincere and considered debate, recent TMP experience sadly leads me to believe that I'll simply be disparaged and blocked here – just like the latest casualty KatieL has been – in my case because I've used the "F" word and dared to challenge a few things. I'll probably also be written off as a "troll" just for good measure. That is a shame. A good many people here including the Editor don't appear to understand exactly what constitutes trolling and what does not. Recently I was accused by you Bill of exactly this – "he is just baiting you with the same things they say about you over on Frothers." – I'm sorry no I was not – on BOTH counts. I personally found the other member's views to be ethically repellent and as such I was challenging his assumptions about me, about the subject under discussion and his generally xenophobic comments.

The sanctimonious hypocrisy that pervades on TMP just gets worse daily at an exponential rate and it's about time more people woke up or dared to stand up (in whatever way works for them – but for christ's sake stand up!) and question what is really going on here. Adios amigos….

Cheers John, bit of a bargain that – seems to be perfectly sized for 15mm?

The are a tad small (nearer N gauge 1/144, I figure) but – for me – what starts as a neat and tidy N gauge, 3 seats wide, tram car becomes a smaller, more cramped, probably two seats with a narrow isle in between (but I can't see because the windows are so dirty) small monorail.

And painted by someone else (so only needs me to add the dirt!)

Works for me.

As for socks, puppets and massive accusations of conspiracies going back decades by both Khurusan and Bill…. well I'm rather losing the plot here, I will admit: it's late, it's Sunday night and I'm trying to get my head around the week ahead…

And obviously I'm only posting here now to get the page count up to eight (as that seems very important to some folks!)

John T

badlydressedhob. Just seems to be I am lucky to post after Bill. But I don't need to do anything or "enlighten" for you or others. I have been a regular member for over 10 years and have made thousands of posts that quite a few find interesting and informative. Hmmmm…lets see how many of your "51" have been helpful in any way. Thank God for the Stifle and Ignore buttons. Buh bye.

Like that tram – coincidently have been looking at the SIKU one's this weekend:

link

Now…I don't really need a Tram as such, but then again…trams are cool.

"Robert Kennedy"….. isn't it remarkable how frequently you appear hot on the heels of posts by the Editor in Chief?

If you're asking if Robert Kennedy is my sock puppet, the answer is no.

I have been a regular visitor to TMP since the 1990s…

No offense, but your writing style and your talking points resemble Thaddeus Blanchette ("Macunaima"). Do you know him?

Editor in Chief/Bill, exactly how much would you have really cared two hoots about KM's sock-puppetry shenanigans if it hadn't been for the Da_Bish and/or Larry Dunn connections?

Check the chronology. The allegation that "Da Bish" on Frothers was Khurasan was made after I made the sock puppet announcement. Similarly, the proof linking Larry Dunn to Khurasan was also after my initial announcement.

…And all this from a man who couldn't even own up to his own "alternate identity" until "compelling" evidence and pressure forced you to do so…

The only reason I did not disclose my pseudonym was to protect the privacy of the editors. Once their privacy was compromised, I have admitted that I run a blog under a pseudonym.

Whilst the KM sock-puppetry leaves a bit of a bad taste let's get some perspective here, it's hardly that big a deal in the grand scheme of things is it?

I don't think TMP has ever maintained that this is a gross crime. Khurasan attempted to deceive the TMP readership throough the use of fraudulent accounts. The historical penalty for doing so is to lose access to TMP. What consumers want to do is up to them.

Compared to… hmmm, well lets see…

Hmmm… sounds like the usual Frothers talking points. Mostly complaining about things that moderators took care of long ago.

Is that page count not yet at 8 ?

And is there honey still for tea ?

Well, tried to help you out John – back to you.

I think so too 20thmaine. I have some in 3mm .

Hey Bill. If I am your Sock Puppet do I get an extended membership? LOL

Yeah, this thread has left a bad taste in my mouth. Khurasan was a favorite of mine and my collection shows it. But some of the people and companies that he targeted are some of my very favorites. Dave MacBride and Rebel Mike are two of the folks I love to visit with at the con's and they make great products too. They both are great guys who do what they do for the love of the hobby. This Larry character really ed on them. That's not right. Competition is one thing, and it's a healthy thing too, but this is something different. It's revolting.

None of this was necessary.. KM was a great company. He didn't need to stoop to this.

I personally don't know if I'll buy from him again. A shame really, but I can't separate the man from the business. I was really looking forward to his Cold War stuff too.

The whole thing is depressing really.

I've met Dave and Doc McBride too, and they strike me as men of integrity. Worth doing business with.

It seems like the potentially juvenile expression was the least juvenile part of that post.

Hey Bill. If I am your Sock Puppet do I get an extended membership? LOL wink

It would be a stronger argument if the writing styles were different at all, and you didn't use those idiotic smiley faces after every sentence.

I could not care less about another persons opinion on miniatures. If I like them, I buy them.
If I don't like them, I won't. I might even say I don't like them, though I guess that would get me banned now.

…dont see why. I've said where I don't like things (from a modeller/wargamer perspective) and I'm still here.

Difference is I don't do it from another account pretending to be neutral, at the same time hood winking customers by pushing my own line on the sly.

I state my bias (in my username), and my status as a role player, wargamer and modeller so that my 52 years gaming experience (ok, perhaps not been gaming for quite all of those years) can be weighed against my 18 years as an owner of QRF and Freikorp.

There's something hilarious about the fact that this thread is being derailed not away from, but towards the subject of our shared hobby… by talk of things that run on rails!

The irony is priceless.

Bill,

Comparing me to a well known Frother… is that really the best you can come up with? No, I am not he and no I don't know him. I'm not an academic and I believe my writing style is markedly different. You do seem to wheel out the same smoke and mirror comments every time to deflect anything that won't conveniently fit into your TMP world view. Well, As everyone keeps saying it's your site – your ego trip. I may share some views with those expressed on the other site but by no means all of them.

I've been a wargamer since 1978 when I first stepped inside the Nottingham Model Soldier Shop closely followed by Asgard and then Tabletop Games, I'm a former member of Nottingham wargames club in the 1980s, I've watched the heady rise and fall of Games Workshop and am now largely a painter and occasional solo player due to geographical location and I hope my views can be weighed against that. Some of us may simply have to use a pseudonym due to the somewhat sensitive nature of our jobs.

And I beg to differ, the moderators have not taken care of the things I discussed – they still occur here regularly coming from a small crowd of the same few members who never seem to get muzzled. Strange that…

I've said my piece and people can make of it and respond however they may. I don't expect everyone to agree but FWIW what I wrote is my own and dare I say it, sincere.

And now I'll retire.

I thought you retired already Mark :-)

I know in the past, CNN would close comment sections on articles when they got out of hand or the comments were more damaging than they were worth (and now they disallow comments for the most part). The useful nature of this thread seems (to me) to have run its course (the information is out there and opinions are formed). Does TMP ever close threads?

Does TMP ever close threads?

Good question. A feature I have experienced on several other forums (gardening, Lotus users, DIY) is the ability for moderators to lock threads when they start to go off topic (or get out of control), which is a handy way of keeping them, well, in control!

Something to consider for TMP 4.0 perhaps?

"Something to consider for TMP 4.0 perhaps?"

How many pages will this thread have run to by the time TMP 4.0 hits the streets? :)

Thanks DS6151 .

I thought the idea was to keep this running until
TMP 4.0…

Level up!

"Sock Puppet Accounts Locked" is now a lvl 8 Controversy.

New skills learned:

Law School Sleuthing
Monorail De-rail Re-rail Paradoxomancy
Wall of Silence (tier 8)
Sock Puppet Accusation Shieldbash (tier 176)

…OK, OK, now I'm not being helpful anymore… *gets back in box*

Hah!

Page 8!!! Whooo Hooo!!

I have some very nice toys from Khurasan (exhibit 'A', m'lud)

Nasty shot-trap on those Khurasan tanks. Pity. Might want to consider getting some elsewhere. ;)

Nasty shot-trap on those Khurasan tanks. Pity. Might want to consider getting some elsewhere. ;)

Worse than these?

I still think they look very nice but – in the scheme of things – that doesn't matter much to me anymore, really!

John T

I'm just kidding. And imitating some of those alleged sock puppet comments that were made against KM competitors. ;)

Does TMP ever close threads?

No, it's been TMP policy not to close threads. Let people talk…

Shot trap on a Leopard?!
There isn't one. See this discussion:
link

Thanks for that Gwydion. Wow I did learn something from this thread.

John T.: The Siler was designed by the much lovelier and much-more-talented-than-I Mark Mondragon. I can't claim credit for it, much as I want to.

Best,
JBR